MVP Real Estate Podcast

Dissecting Real Estate Lending Strategies with Kevin Amolsch

• Marcus Perleberg • Season 4 • Episode 9

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What if leveraging student loans could be your ticket to a flourishing real estate career? Join us as we chat with Kevin from Pine Financial about his unconventional journey from the Army to becoming a real estate lending powerhouse. Kevin reveals how his unique methods and strategic thinking helped him build an impressive property portfolio, providing listeners with actionable insights and tips for navigating the real estate financing landscape.

Curious about transitioning from local investments to nationwide opportunities? Kevin sheds light on the critical differences between residential and commercial ventures, highlighting the importance of trust and relationships in real estate. Discover how Pine Financial stands apart with their specialized loans for fix-and-flip projects, BRRRR strategies, and commercial repositioning, and why Minnesota is a key location in Kevin's investment strategy.

Ever wondered how interest rates impact the housing market? Kevin breaks it down, dispelling myths and providing a comprehensive analysis of mortgage rates and their real-world implications. Tune in to hear Kevin's experiences during the 2020 mass unemployment, the resilience of the real estate market through the pandemic, and his practical advice on building credibility, raising funds, and continually learning in the financial world. Don't miss this episode brimming with expertise and invaluable lessons for both new and seasoned investors!

Chapter Timestamps

(00:03) - Real Estate Investing Success Story

(08:13) - Diverse Real Estate Investment Strategies

(13:47) - The Impact of Interest Rates

(20:39) - Real Estate Lending Distinctions and Strategies

(31:06) - Building Credibility and Raising Money

(41:26) - Real Estate Investment Fund Structures

(49:10) - Real Estate Investment Book Recommendations

(57:56) - Continual Learning in Financial World

Highlight Timestamps

(00:37 - 01:20) Show Setup and Pine Financial Introduction (44 Seconds)

(15:14 - 15:43) Affordability and Location Preferences (28 Seconds)

(17:17 - 18:16) Understanding Interest Rates and Mortgages (59 Seconds)

(24:31 - 24:58) Property Value-Add Investment Strategy (27 Seconds)

(33:17 - 34:29) Building Credibility for Real Estate Investment (72 Seconds)

(39:43 - 40:38) Building Credibility for Sales Success (56 Seconds)

(46:58 - 48:35) Real Estate Loan Differences and Memories (97 Seconds)

(53:51 - 54:40) Podcast Guest Experience & Book Promotion (49 Seconds)

(58:08 - 58:32) Financial Gurus on Buying Strategy (24 Seconds)

Kevin's Bio:
https://pinefinancialgroup.com/our-team/kevin-amolsch/

Link to Kevin's books:
https://www.amazon.com/stores/Kevin-Amolsch/author/B01COR8670?ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1&qid=1721238784&sr=8-1&isDramIntegrated=true&shoppingPortalEnabled=true

Link to lending site:
https://pinefinancialgroup.com/


Real Estate Investing, Kevin, Pine Financial, Property Investments, Innovative Strategies, Fix-and-Flip, BRRRR, Commercial Repositioning, Traditional Banks, Nationwide, Residential, Commercial, Risk Factors, Lease Cycles, Valuation Dynamics, Relationships, Trust, Minnesota, Interest Rates, Housing Market, Mortgage Rates, Federal Reserve, Economic Downturns, COVID-19 Pandemic, Credibility, Raising Funds, Financial World, Investment Funds, SEC Regulations, Diversification, Real Estate Education, Rich Dad Poor Dad, Fund

Marcus:

Welcome back to this week's episode of MVP real estate podcast, season four, episode nine. We got Kevin here from Pine Financial such a small world. We've actually reached out to this group for some lending before and now getting to talk to the owner of the company. So I'm excited personally. Owner of the company. So I'm excited personally and as we got through the show dropped a wealth of knowledge. That kind of like formulized the way I look at lending. He kind of took it to like a new level of compartmentalization. Yeah, like he looks at it from such a broad perspective. It can narrow down very well that I didn't even get to the height of how he looks at lending. So he talks about the bucket of funds that he creates and how he looks at lending. And then two, he also kind of spells out if you are looking to get into investing, what kind of deals he can help you with and what's really cool with them is you get to see how diverse lending is within real estate, because not every lender is the same. There's a little segment here. We talk about why Pine Financial is different than your local town bank and what they do and what Pine Financial does best or what their niche is. So, rather than me talk about it, let's just bring Kevin in. Hi, welcome to the show. Kevin is here with us. Thanks for giving us the time, marcus what a fantastic introduction.

Kevin Amolsch:

I'm so excited to be here. I'm excited to hang out with you for what you said about an hour or so. So, yeah, I'm excited to be here.

Marcus:

Yeah, it's such a cool show because we did not know setting up the show that we've already talked to Pine Financial. Yeah, you had mentioned that this is super cool and you guys are out of Denver, so I guess we'll start there. Kevin, give us a little background about, I guess, you, and then about Pine Financial, and we'll kind of go into the show.

Kevin Amolsch:

Yeah, dan Marcus, I got to tell you I absolutely love real estate and I found out that at an early age. So I was in the Army. I got sold on the laser tag, right. I was like, what do I do after high school? And they're like, well, come to the army and play laser tag. So I ended up going to the army and what I learned there was, you know, I was getting a little savings account, but I didn't know how to invest some money. So I started reading books and then I picked up that purple Bible, that and everything was saying, you know, real estate is a fantastic way to get wealthy. And I gosh, I want to be wealthy. So I started looking into real estate and I bought my first house I was 21 at the time got out of the military and moved into it. And then I you know it was like I want to have a rental property. So the best way for me at that time was to move out of it and keep it as a rental. But I didn't have down payment money, right, I'm a broke college kid. So what I ended up doing is taking out student loans and I use that as a down payment on my second property and then I kept the first one as a rental. So there I was, a landlord, I was 23. And I saw my tenant paying off my mortgage for me. I saw the appreciation of the property, I saw the cash flow, I got the tax benefits right All the things that we learned about as a real estate investor and I just knew that this was the commodity, if you want to call it that, that's going to make me rich. So I started focusing in on it. As I was in college, I was buying one or two houses every single month all no money down transactions and in that process I learned that the financing side of real estate is where all the action is. The way you negotiate it, the way you write up your offers, your LOIs, the way you negotiate and the language you use when you're talking to sellers has everything to do with how you're going to take it down, how are you going to fund it. So I just started focusing in on funding and became a mortgage broker. This is back before the SAFE Act, and it was literally the Wild West. There was no licensing or anything. The SAFE Act and it was literally the wild west, there was no licensing or anything Went through the whole crash 2008 and started Pine Financial. So it was 2008,. I started Pine Financial and we raised private money from individual investors and we loaned it out to active real estate investors to do their development deals. So think about your fix and flips, your BRRRR strategies, sometimes some commercial repositioning, anytime you could add value to a property. Those are the loans that we're interested in doing.

Marcus:

That's super cool and what a trajectory you were in college. When everybody else is going like in I'll call it debt, but it's financial, educational debt and you are coming out and almost like thriving where you're coming out. Coming out and almost like thriving where you're coming out, maybe not as as debt, um drowning as normal college kids would be.

Kevin Amolsch:

Yeah, I guess that's true. I did take on some debt, but I didn't use it for college. But remember, I had an advantage because I had the army, yeah. So I had the GI bill, I had I had the um. I was in the national guard at the time and they were paying for the school, so I I didn't need the student loan, right. I was trying the National Guard at the time and they were paying for the school, so I didn't need the student loan, right, I was trying to acquire assets, like I learned in the Purple Bible.

Marcus:

Nice and the student loans. Was that a FAFSA like government-backed loan, or were those all private loans that you could isolate? Because I know that some lenders make sure that you're putting the money towards what you're lending it for.

Kevin Amolsch:

Yeah, so how did you jump through that that hurdle? Yeah, this was through the college, so I assume it was the government back stuff. It was super low interest rate, like one and a half percent or something, wow, and yeah, it was just. It was a check to me to buy school supplies, books and pay tuition, right, yeah, but you used it wisely. Yeah, I mean, why wouldn't I take sub 2% money?

Marcus:

Right, that is like they're paying you to take it. That's right, that's awesome. So, by the time you were out of college, how many rental units did you hold at graduation?

Kevin Amolsch:

Oh gosh, I I'd have to go back and look Marcus. I honestly don't know the answer to that, but if I'm going to guess, it's probably between 15 and 20. So I'd buy it. I'd buy one or two a month, right, but I'd flip some of them. I would keep them some of them. We would flip paper. You know, we would wholesale that kind of thing. You know, going into this, I know for sure, because we could talk about this. But when the crash hit, you know we started feeling that pressure in 2007. That's when interest rates started going up and rent values started coming down. Everybody that I knew was in adjustable rates at that time. You know those crazy interest only adjustable rate. They were just in every single month. So my payments were going up, my rents were coming down in 2007. That obviously led up to the crash in 08. Down in 2007.

Marcus:

That obviously led up to the crash in 08. But I had 55 rental properties when that hit. That's a tough one to get out of, but obviously you made it out so that's good.

Kevin Amolsch:

Yeah, it's times like that that separate successful people from people that are maybe not as successful right it's those trying times that really put you to the test and you can either come through the test or not.

Marcus:

Yeah, yeah and I'm sure it's not the first time you've been tested, because I'm trying to put myself in my 18 to 21 year old self, buying all these properties Like did you? I guess this is more of a personal question, because there's not many 19 to 21 year olds out there that are like yep, I want to invest. I don't want to take this money. I just got for my paycheck and go out. I want to put it towards an asset that's going to pay me when I'm an adult. So, as you're walking around the college campus, knowing what you know, are some of your buddies on campus like getting on board with you or are you flying solo through all of this?

Kevin Amolsch:

No, I was definitely flying solo and I was in my early twenties, right Cause I had the military first.

Marcus:

So I wasn't 18. Okay.

Kevin Amolsch:

But yeah, I was literally like that was my first cell phone, Like I didn't even have a cell phone until I got out of the army, those were. That wasn't really a thing to tell you my age a little bit. But so I was like all proud of myself. I had this cell phone and I could actually make calls on it, and so I'd walk around campus like calling people from the newspaper that are trying to sell their house or rent their house, as I'm walking between classes and all I'm trying to do is find out if they have any motivation at all and if they're willing to work with like some type of creative offer. And if I could sense that then I would set an appointment and go meet with them on the weekends. So I'm setting appointments, as I'm walking between classes and then I'm on the weekends, I'm going into their living room and meeting with them.

Marcus:

Nice, so you're staying pretty local. Then when you started investing, it was all where you're at.

Kevin Amolsch:

Yeah, because every deal I did was direct to owner, so I was literally shaking their hand, right, we call it belly to belly selling. I was in their living room.

Marcus:

Okay, and then you obviously have since then transitioned into probably nationwide investing. Yeah, I really on the financial side, but your own personal my personal portfolio.

Kevin Amolsch:

I do still like to stay as local as possible. Now, if I have a good sponsor that I'm partnering with, I don't necessarily love to get into big syndication type deals, although I am in a handful. If it's a smaller group, like four or five people, I'm interested in those types of deals if I have a really strong sponsor. So in those cases I might go into different areas. But for me personally, I have ownership in Colorado and Minnesota. That's really the only two markets that I have personal real estate in.

Marcus:

Okay, and then the Pine Financial Group umbrella. So if we can narrow in on that one, yeah, lending, that's nationwide.

Kevin Amolsch:

So lending, we're local. We're focused on that too, because, look, the risk in real estate is location, I mean, and there's a lot to that Like, do I have the relationships if I get myself into a problem, to get myself out of a problem? That's a big piece of it, right? Do I have people I could trust to go out and inspect it and tell me the freaking truth? Because there's a lot of fraud, right? So I don't want to go out. I don't want to get an inspector inspecting a different property telling me it's the wrong one, so we're very cautious with that stuff. So we're in Colorado and Minneapolis. Those are our two primary markets. We do business in Wisconsin, so, as we talked about, you're in Milwaukee, so we do a fair amount in Milwaukee. And now we're in Washington DC Interesting story about each of those. But those are the four markets we're in and that's for residential. Now we do a handful of commercial transactions as well, and those is nationwide, and the reason I'm okay with that is because we're a much more sophisticated borrower, with larger balance sheets, strong guarantees, and we have a much lower loan to value.

Marcus:

Okay, do you personally like the residential or do you like the commercial?

Kevin Amolsch:

So for my personal investments I'm more into the commercial because of the bigger numbers. Right, add a zero to it. It's the same amount of work on the fine financial side. I know I'm trying to. I don't want to confuse anybody here. There's two different things here. Right, fine financial is a lender I own that company, but that doesn't own property. Right, it just makes loans. So on that side I I I love the residential side because it's more liquid so I can get in and out of transactions way faster and velocity increases profits in that business.

Marcus:

Yeah, I the one thing I know about the commercial cause. We stay primarily within residential but from what I've heard and what I've experienced on the commercial side, the sales cycle are so long. It's long. Yeah, like to get in and out, even to get a tenant in or out. The lease and just the time to prepare and get things signed are just way longer on the commercial side.

Kevin Amolsch:

Well, yeah, and think about this on the residential side, if you lose a tenant, the value of that property might actually go up, right? Because now we're selling it to an owner, user, and then there's a motion Whenever you're selling to someone who's going to occupy the property. Now we have a motion that we're dealing with and a motion creates sometimes strange decisions, right, so they will pay more for a property than an investor would. Now, on the commercial side, if you lose a tenant, the value of that thing comes down, and sometimes significantly down. So it's a very different game.

Marcus:

Yeah, and those lease rates are usually long-term in commercial rather than the private or the personal side. And I was reading something early on it might've come from BiggerPockets and they talked about the value of a non-fully functioning property. So an eight unit that has two units open might sell for higher than a fully occupied unit because of the optics of what the buyer is getting. They can now improve that unit or that income because they can raise rents or increase those units. So there's like a fine balance of being like fully occupied to like leaving a little bit of room for that new buyer to come in and and push the rents or increase their profit on the property.

Kevin Amolsch:

Yeah, so God, you brought that up and that perception is real right, we all, we all have heard that. That's very true what you just said, if you're at four units or less, because now we're, we're Fannie Mae financing right, we could do. We can go and get owner occupied. You could even FHA a four unit right, and if there's a vacant unit you could justify I am going to move into it. Eight units a little bit tougher, but the if there's perceived value add, then you're right. Have you heard the joke Like, if you're having trouble selling your property, just throw a rock through the window market as a handyman special and put it back on the market like no? And now there's, oh my gosh, now look at all this value because it's a handyman special. Now I'm gonna, now I'll buy it yeah, that's funny.

Marcus:

All right, we're gonna start uh, throwing rocks at window as we unload I don't know if that not tested.

Kevin Amolsch:

Okay, actual results may vary. What are the other? Uh? What else should we say?

Marcus:

yeah, this is not. This is not legal advice. This is just for entertainment purposes. That's our disclosure.

Dan:

Paul, I want to jump in really quick. You talk about being invested in Minnesota. What area of Minnesota?

Kevin Amolsch:

So we're only in the Twin Cities. I've tried several times to move into Rochester, which is south, with very, very little luck. The Mayo Clinic's down there, so I thought with a strong employer we'd have some luck, but we just haven't. So we're really just in the twin cities.

Dan:

So the reason I'm asking is two personal reasons. My, my daughter's actually living up in St Paul right now, okay, and she's living with a family friend for free, but she's trying to find a place of her own near the Minnesota United FC stadium because she works for that, that MLS club right now also, what you just mentioned in Rochester, her boyfriend is going to be interning at the Mayo Clinic for nuclear, nuclear medicine. So like she's looking for a place somewhere between closer to St Paul a little bit north. Are you familiar with the Blaine area? Oh?

Kevin Amolsch:

yeah, blaine's North. It's North of the city, yeah, just.

Dan:

North of there. So she's trying to find somewhere within that little triangle, looking for a spot to rent. But for her, being single, looking for a studio apartment, I think, all in, I think it was like close to $1,700 a month and that's more than you know my mortgage on a 2,500 square foot house down in just south of milwaukee area. So it's like very, very, I don't say tedious, but also like stress. Stress for her to try to find a spot, being a single or not single, but just living on her own in that area.

Kevin Amolsch:

So what's a desirable leads on places, let me know I will do that and that sounds cheap to me. You said 1700, but you know I just signed a lease on a. It's a four bedroom house, but in not a great area in Denver, and I just got three grand a month for it. Wow, I just signed that this morning. So I mean, affordability is an issue, right?

Marcus:

Yeah, yeah, and that's why you push people to purchase. So, and that's why that was a conversation, marcus we had.

Dan:

Yeah, you're like, hey, why don't you tell her to look for a single family house? But then she's going to be out in the suburbs and not really in the city area or central. You know, I mean what? Blaine's a suburb? Yeah, that's the practice facility area. I think I don't know where she spends more of her time for the with the club yeah, I'm a big advocate for buy now.

Kevin Amolsch:

I mean, I don't see values in real estate going down anytime soon. In fact, if we do see some interest rate relief, you're probably going to see values go up. And so if you're buying now and I know you hear, marry the property, date the rate right We've all heard that, but it's true Like a year from now we might be in the sixes, low sixes, and you can refinance.

Marcus:

Right.

Kevin Amolsch:

But at least you're locking in a price now in an environment where there's potential appreciation.

Marcus:

Yeah, and all I hope for in three years from now, when we get to six, people don't think, ah, it's still incredibly high, because six is pretty normal. That's a normal. We're just living in three for so long that people nowadays think three is normal, but three was incredibly low yeah, we're not going to see that again.

Kevin Amolsch:

That's unprecedented yes.

Marcus:

So I just hope that when six rolls back around, people are like, oh, thank goodness, we got our rate back, and not like I'll wait for it to go lower because, like man, if we see six again I'll be happy I would not be surprised if we stay around the sevens the rest of the year.

Kevin Amolsch:

I mean, and you know people get confused on this whole interest rate topic because of what the Fed does, right. So they think that if they lower the federal funds rate that it's going to immediately impact interest rates. And I think over time you might see that. But there's not a strong correlation between those two rates. I mean, the mortgage rate is based on supply and demand and it's the 10 year plus a margin, and I don't think people understand that. And the demand for the treasuries already has a built in price cut, so it's already built in.

Marcus:

Yeah, that's interesting and the more and more I read, because I was the same thing. When I got in I thought the federal set their limit. Obviously the banks are a little bit higher than what your feds put out and then that is what your rate is. So there's a direct correlation between the two. But then you find out there's a whole bunch of other things in there that factor into rates. That again they go over my head and I'm in this. Rates that again they go over my head and I'm in this. So that's why we talk to people like you that are in it that can explain these things to either the home buyer or the investor who's looking at it.

Kevin Amolsch:

So well, the Fed rate is the overnight rate that you might hear it as called the overnight, you might hear it as a short-term rate or you might like a bank rate. All that is is if a bank borrows from another bank, what's the overnight interest rate they pay? So if you think about normal consumer debt, like car loans and credit cards, those will be impacted by this rate. But mortgages are not tied to the federal funds rate. They're tied to a secondary market. What is the demand for people buying this stuff? So you think of mortgages get packaged into a big bond and sold. It's a fixed income, just like a treasury. So all they're trying to do is buy cashflow. But mortgages are riskier than treasuries, right, obviously. So there's got to be a bump in the rate. We call that the margin Now. The margin's high right now because there's more perceived risk in mortgages. So you're looking at 1.7% ish margin. So take your 10 year treasury rate, add one seven and that's going to give you a range of where your mortgage rates are.

Marcus:

Yeah, and you said it was more risky on a mortgage. What is the risk that they factor in, like why do they say or claim that it's more risky than in auto loan?

Kevin Amolsch:

So when I say more risky, I'm saying more risky than it has been in the past, because usually one four, one five is a typical type of margin. So you have your 10 year. Then we know mortgages are more risky at the 10 year because it's not backed by the government, right. So you have to add some type of return to get investors want to buy that. So call it one and a half. Well, now we're at one seven, let's say so you're a little higher than what you might see typically and that's just because of the shaky. I don't know the actual answer because it's just the market working Right, but we're in a shakier economy. There's a lot of concern with higher for longer interest rates and there's worry, there's concern about defaults, mortgage defaults. So if you have those concerns. It's going to be perceived risk, which, as an investor, I would want a higher return to compensate me for that higher perceived risk. That's why you're just seeing a higher margin.

Marcus:

Yeah, and I do feel that pressure of defaults on loans. I feel like everybody, even like the mom and pop investor to the homeowner, are all feeling the pressure of like inflation in in mortgage, like pressure. So I'm guessing that's kind of what you're talking about with the rest of that one that you haven't mentioned, but it's a big concern, is unemployment.

Kevin Amolsch:

Right now we're over four, as, as we're recording this today, it's 4.1. It's still strong. There's one job opening for every one person looking for a job right now. So it's pretty strong. But if you keep creeping up higher and higher and people start getting laid off, then that's where you have the risk of defaults, right?

Marcus:

Yeah, yep, and I don't know what your experience was through it, but the mass unemployment of 2020, did that affect you guys and how, like what, did you guys feel internally during all that? Did you have any negatives through that?

Kevin Amolsch:

You know we had a couple of borrowers that were trying to use that as an excuse to not pay their loan. But it ended up they all paid and everything went just fine. We had very, very little impact from COVID and all the shutdowns, but I know that I mean a lot of that's the free money that was given out. So even if you didn't have a job, you were still getting money right. So I don't think it had a big impact in this industry, in real estate overall. Like owners of real estate, it helped a lot. Right, Look at what we saw with home appreciation during that time. I mean it literally like right, Double digit, like straight up, and it hasn't really backed off. Now it's flattened out some. But as far as impact, I think banks are nervous so they're not lending. So that helps companies like Pine Financial because we have money to lend, and then owners of real estate, the values have gone up.

Marcus:

So yeah and okay. So you alluded to something that I was going to ask. It seems like a very basic question, but what makes Pine Financial different than your local town bank when you go to look for a?

Kevin Amolsch:

mortgage. Yeah, so we don't accept. I mean this is going to be confusing because I just said we accept investors but we don't have a deposit. We don't accept deposits, so we don't have like a deposit relationship with our investors. It's really more of a long-term investment and because of that we don't have the regulation like a bank would. So we don't have FDIC to worry about. And then we're also not regulated by RESPA or TILA or any of those others like conventional type loans. So you think about your Fannie Mae, freddie Mac, jumbo, va, all of that stuff. We don't have any of that regulation. So we're sort of like in this interesting position where we have a lot of flexibility with the underwriting and decision-making. So we we underwrite and service every loan we do in-house here in Denver, so that gives us tremendous amount of, like I said, flexibility with our clients. So help me understand the deal, help me understand how you're going to pay me back and let's find a way to work together. So it's very, very different than you would get with a mortgage like a typical conventional type mortgage.

Marcus:

Yeah, and you mentioned the Freddie May, fannie Mac, fdic kind of qualifications and for those people listening, like when you go on the market, on the MLS, to find a property that you want to buy and you go to your local town bank, you can go get a mortgage from them because you're going to bring them a house that they want to lend on. It's pretty clean, you fit within their box, it's super easy for them to digest, they get it, we're good. But as you get into some of the different properties where it's maybe a mixed use or maybe there's some zoning issues or we had one on like an FHA loan where there was chipping paint and they wouldn't lend on it because it didn't fit in their box those things at a typical bank you're going to work or have to work around with Pine, they're a little bit more open to these mixed use properties. or it doesn't have to fit into a nice neat, orderly box that Freddie Mac or Fannie Mae would fit into correct.

Kevin Amolsch:

Yeah, yeah, and remember we're value-add. That's absolutely right, Marcus, but remember we're value-add. So if it's a nice, pretty home like performing or something's going to move into it, then there's no reason for us. Right, you should go get your 30-year fixed rate loan because that's the cheapest money you're ever going to find. But we would not be a good fit there. Now, if that thing's falling off the foundation, I doubt Fannie Mae is going to loan on that, right, because it's not habitable. They have a little checkbox and the appraisals is a property habitable? And if that thing says no, the appraiser's opinion of that. If that says no, then it's not financeable. Right, we call it bankable. It's not a bankable product. But private lenders like us, we want that property falling off the foundation because we know we could fix it and make money right.

Marcus:

Yep, Yep. So when we build our duplexes, you are the person that's going to help us correct. Do you do new builds? We?

Kevin Amolsch:

do some new construction. Yeah, the problem with this, Marcus, is the new construction takes so long right.

Dan:

And.

Kevin Amolsch:

I know, that we make more money on velocity. So if I could charge my two points, or whatever it is, and fees over and over, and over and over, I make more than okay. I'll loan it to you so you could do a two-year project.

Marcus:

Yep, yep. And there's other lenders out there, like where you guys know your niche and where you guys make your money on. On volume, on quick lending, we have some contacts with people that do new build lending, like they want the construction loans, they're niche, that is what they do, so you can go in and say, hey, here's the whole scope of the project, this is the timeline. It's like a 10 or 15% down and then they fund the rest of the, the amount, and they make their money on on the sale or whenever you refinance it.

Kevin Amolsch:

Yeah, their model is different, right they're making. They're more concerned with the spread than they are the fees exactly so as you look at a property.

Marcus:

If you and this is gonna be a tough question, oh great, what? Would be, what would be, what would be your ideal deal to cross your table, like what would be your ideal deal to cross your table, like what would be your like sweet spot, if you have one, or if you have multiple.

Kevin Amolsch:

It's very easy. We're fix and flip. That's what we are at our core. So if you got a great deal, you could add value by finishing it off. You know we're not seeing a lot of kitchen, bath remodel, fix and flips right now. It's definitely a higher like a higher value add. So if you could add an addition or something and then make some money that way, then that would be ideal for us.

Marcus:

But we do want to be in and out of these projects quickly. Yeah, and I know there's some other companies we work with Enhanceify. They do like they're not our own but I don't know. Josie wants to do her kitchen. Enhanceify will go in and lend on it. But what I've found is, with the appreciation of people's homes, there's more equity. So I've been seeing more lines of credit on their homes than going to get private lending for those little like bathroom remodels or kitchen remodels. Sometimes the basement remodels are a little bit higher than what they need, but I've been seeing more of a push towards the HELOCs than the private lending, yeah, and you're not going to see a lot of private lending in consumer finance.

Kevin Amolsch:

So when you're saying we're going to finish off my kitchen, I'm assuming that's an owner occupied type of deal there. And now all of a sudden we fall into a consumer bucket. So this is good for the listener to hear. When you're looking at hard money and private money lenders, there's two buckets every single loan falls in. You have your commercial and you have your consumer. So consumer is your credit cards, your car loans, like we talked about, and it's your owner occupied financing your HELOCs. That's all consumer. Now we fall under all of that RESPA regulation and all the usury and all the stuff that we were trying to avoid as hard money lenders. So we require it to be in the commercial bucket. So the distinction here is intent. But the distinction is are you borrowing money from me to make money or are you trying to get a personal benefit from it? That's the distinction. So if you're going to finish a basement because you want to flip that property, you're buying it, finishing the basement and reselling it. That's going to fall in the commercial bucket. But I guess that's a long way to respond to your comment there. Yeah, heloc is the best way, if you're currently living in the property, to get money to rehab it.

Marcus:

Yeah, and I liked that. That actually created a really nice map in my head of the two buckets the consumer bucket or the commercial bucket. So I'm now going to rewire that as I think about lending, because that's even a higher level than I thought it was, so I like that.

Kevin Amolsch:

We're just trying to avoid regulation. Right, and there's still some regulation, there's no question about it, but it's just not at the same level. It's state regulated instead of federal regulated.

Marcus:

Yeah, and with your loans, do you have a typical, just for we'll call it, marketing purposes you're not held to these rates or anything like that, or timelines but do you have an average rate that you lend on or time period that your loan is out for when you put?

Kevin Amolsch:

these loans out. Yeah, we write the loan for nine months, now that it typically pays off quicker than that. Now I mentioned an addition. If you're doing an addition, it might. We might do a 12 month loan or something, cause I know it's going to take you a little bit more time. Look, we do want to set our client up to succeed. If they're successful, then we're successful. We believe that at our core, so we will try to work with you on that. So, typical nine month, 12 to 13% interest rate and then there's some lender fees. So I mentioned points earlier and I kind of jumped over that quickly. A point for the listener here is 1% of the loan amount in a fee. So if you're borrowing a hundred grand and I say it's two points that's 2% of a hundred grand in lender fees.

Marcus:

Yeah, and that's a. It's actually a common question that clients always ask like what are the points? What's a point? Yeah, exactly, and they go off of um like they'll look at the stock market and it's up three points and like is that like the same thing? Yeah, that's different.

Kevin Amolsch:

So yeah, yeah, point. A point could be considered a percent of something, so I'm a point higher than prime, prime, prime and a point would be prime rate plus 1% and that would be your interest rate. Right, so it could have different meanings, but if you're talking about lender points, that's. That's what I was referring to.

Marcus:

Yeah, yeah and it's a little nuance that you get into hard money. Which do you? Do you recommend a new investor getting in with hard money? A hundred percent?

Kevin Amolsch:

Okay, a hundred percent. I do think that they should go out and raise their own private money because it's going to be far cheaper in the long run. But look it's, if you haven't done a deal before, it's hard, right? You don't want, you don't want Thanksgiving to get weird, right? So going to your friends and family could be tough. But if you want someone who understands the business and is willing to look at your deal and advise you maybe it costs you a little bit more, but you have someone that's legitimate in your corner I think it's worth it. So, to get your feet under you and to get going. It's very common to see newer investors use hard money and then, as you grow, hard money is a great way to supplement. So we have borrowers. And here's another misconception you have to have bad credit right. Bad credit is hard money right. It's not like that at all. We have 800 credit score. Half a million dollar liquidity still come to us Now. They have other sources also, but then they have a deal that has closed fast or they don't have the money readily available, and then they'll come to us to supplement their business. So it's a great way to scale an experienced investor or for a newer investor to get going.

Marcus:

Yeah, and I thought, getting into real estate, the fact that people would want to give you money was bizarre. Like there's no way a random person would want to lend me a million dollars. There's no way. But as you get into this, it's not a weird thing to go and set up a meeting and be like, hey, do you have hard money and you want to lend it? And they come out with their rate sheet and it's like it's common practice Totally. And they come out with their rate sheet and it's like it's common practice Totally and it's not weird to like ask investors if they have money to use it for your investment property. And that's like the one thing that new investors I want to like reiterate ask people, because it's not weird. I know like ask people for gas money is kind of weird. Or like hey, I can't get groceries, can you give me 50 bucks? That might be weird, but in the business sector, hard money is normal.

Dan:

Well, they're expecting a return plus points. Yeah, yeah.

Kevin Amolsch:

That's right. Well, and think about if you're looking at private money, for example. It isn't too many to ask for that, right? But that's a mind shift that you need to make. Yeah, I mean, that's a mind block, a limiting belief, as Tony Robbins would say, because look it's, it's not you asking for money for for from them to do your deal. What you're actually doing is offering them an opportunity to work with you. Yep, right, if you could. If you could do that shift in your mind, that'll open up everything.

Dan:

Yeah, I'm not asking you for money. I'm asking you to put your money here to give you more back.

Kevin Amolsch:

This is an opportunity for you to benefit from my hard work and we're both win right. It's not like I'm just giving you something. I'm going to profit also, but this is an opportunity.

Marcus:

Yep, and to not stop on the first. No. So if someone reached out to you was like, hey, I heard good things about Pine Financial, I've got this new build, I want to build it's going to be a rental, and you say, ah, that's not our niche, we don't do new builds. Some people would be like, see, I told you no one would lend me money, but you go and you keep asking. Someone likes lending on new builds, I know it.

Kevin Amolsch:

Yeah Well, it's such a powerful thing that you're saying here, marcus. Think about when I was 23 and I started just calling people. I would knock on doors too. So I was just like cold calling and knocking on. You think I ever heard no, a 23 year old punk kid telling me I'm going to buy my house with no money down? Like? How many no's do you think you hear? Yeah, you know to's. It's credibility over credit. We've we. We hear this. So if you can get into someone's space but living room or meeting at a coffee shop or whatever, whether you're raising private money, whether you're selling widgets or you're trying to buy a house, if, if you come across as credible and they know, like and trust right, we all know that If they like you, trust you and you're credible, they're not going to ask you for your credit report.

Marcus:

It just doesn't happen. Yeah, yep, and you obviously hit the hard money funding or marketing hard as you started up Pine, correct? Because you went out and you got investors to go in and that's the pool of money that you lend out to investors, right, that's right, and I'm trying to piece together. This is me trying to piece together your, I guess, history and how it led you to Pine Financial. You were in a bank lending prior to that, so you were already in the world of lending. How many years did you work within the private bank?

Kevin Amolsch:

sector. Yeah, so I worked with a private bank when I was in college, so just a couple of years there, and then when I got out, I was struggling. Being a new investor is very difficult, so I needed some additional revenue. So multiple streams, right. So I ended up getting a job and I worked for a Wall Street company, or they worked with Wall Street companies, so our clients were big banks. We analyzed mortgage bonds. So my client, for example, is Credit Suisse right Now. That company that I worked for went public while I was there and then I learned, hey, corporate America is not for me, so that I got out and I got into the lending side and then I became a mortgage broker and I had this huge headache, guys, from just banging my head against the wall because, look, you have no control. It's all the underwriters control, and they could say yes or no. You don't, you don't get to make that decision, and they could change their mind. So you could qualify somebody. Here's what was happening. I was qualifying somebody for their dream home. Like you, you are qualified for X number of dollars. Go find your home. Oh, I found it, I love it. My family's going to be so happy here. Oh, guidelines change. Sorry, you don't qualify anymore. Like it was just a terrible, terrible business. So that's why I started doing the private money. And I just started raising private money. And I'll tell you one thing about raising money Once you do what you say you're going to do, it actually becomes rather easy. So now we just get referrals constantly because we actually perform and we over deliver. So I'm not going to promise anything I can't deliver on, and it's going to be better than what you expected. And then you're going to tell your friends and so that's, that's really what got. That got it going in a snowball, right.

Marcus:

Yeah, and I'm putting myself in your shoes as you go out to these meetings looking for investors, like that's a big ask that I'm sure you're coming from, without that background of like, oh, we've been doing this for 20 years, here's our pro form, these are our numbers. You don't have that as you start. So you're going in talking to these investors saying like, hey, trust me, yeah, how do you, or what did you do? Or what did you find through those meetings that helped you implant, that you were trustworthy, that you could do and trust their money? Or trust, yeah, trust you to handle their money.

Kevin Amolsch:

Yeah, well, I didn't focus on the trust, okay, so I focused on return of investment. So a lot of people that are out there trying to raise money, they focus on return on investment, right? What is the rate of return that I could promise you? I was more focused on return of investment. So how can I protect the money? That's where I focus my conversations on, and it's not going to be trusting me. No, let's build these safeguards and we're going to lock you in so that you know that you're safe. And so at the very beginning, it's like okay, well, we're going to do this deal together with this individual fix and flipper. I'm going to put your name on the note, your name on the deed of trust, and we're going to record it. So that way, if anything goes wrong, you get the house, I don't get anything, yep, and then I'll just manage the whole thing for you, and then you just get your experience, your new credibility from there.

Dan:

Okay.

Kevin Amolsch:

Look, I'll tell you one thing that works really, really well. Here's a secret To build credibility very quickly, you have to be in front of a room. It's a one-to-many approach. The one-to-one approach in raising money is very difficult and I know people do it. They go on their little pitch decks and they go and have coffees and drinks and happy hours and lunches and all these things. That's a hell of a lot of work and it doesn't work well. What works well is if you get in front of a room of 30 people and you teach them how to make money.

Dan:

Interesting that exact same situation with our. Marcus and I used to work together in the fundraising world and it was same exact thing. We would have to go and attack cold drop-ins on coaches of sports programs or, you know, band directors, all that other stuff. After a little bit we started getting smart about it and going into all coaches meetings for the school. Just like you're saying, hey, here's what we can do, here's what we can offer each of your programs, here's the amount of funds you can expect from working with us. And then afterwards, you're just taking business cards and then exchanging contact. We'll set up a meeting for this date for us to get you signed up. Same exact situation or, like I'm sure you've done, like lunch and learns where you. Hey, we're going to buy you lunch, let's have a discussion about it and, like you said, 30, 40 people at a time, as opposed to those one-on-ones. And that's also why we would go to clinics. You go to sports clinics football, softball, all that stuff and you'd have people passing by more, more, um, shooting fish in a barrel because you call it so.

Kevin Amolsch:

Yeah, that's exactly right, Dan. You, you hit it on the head. I don't know if everyone caught that, but it's the credibility piece you got to build first, right? So you do that at a one-to-many approach, but the actual close is usually a one-to-one. So you set up a meeting, one-to-one meeting, after you've built the credibility because you were the one on stage.

Marcus:

Yep, yep. And it was amazing how many people in that room said no. Until you worked with somebody else who's in the room oh yeah, I know that. Okay, sounds good, now I'll listen oh no, they yeah, they said.

Dan:

They said they're gonna move forward with you, okay, well, yeah, that set me up too. I'll see you next tuesday or thursday or whatever time let's, yeah fomo is one of the strongest sales motivators there is yeah, that's what we tell them too. There's two things you can't get back time and money. Let's uh, let's, work together. You're going to tell me let's do this next year, but you're missing out on all the funds you'd be raising this year. So that's right.

Marcus:

Yeah, man, that's wild. That is super cool. There was one question I had that was right before Dan, we're going to edit this part out.

Dan:

No, we're not, we're not going to, I'll jump in with a question what kind of qualifying do you do for people that are interested with giving you money to lend out?

Kevin Amolsch:

Yeah, that's a very good question and it's actually not quite as simple as that because we have so many different funds. So I'll answer this by telling you a quick story on how this progressed. So we were doing the one-to-one individual one investor, one passive investor, one active investor right, and I mentioned that to you earlier, and that's how I got going. Well, the feedback I was getting guys is I need more liquidity, I need a smaller investment amount. I can't fund an entire loan by myself. I need some more diversification, because what if something goes wrong with this one loan and all my money's in it? So we created our first fund, and this was in 2009. I didn't know what the heck I was doing. So what I did was an 8% preferred return, because I keep hearing everyone does that. So that must work. So I did an 8% pref and then anything above that, and that would be paid out every month. Anything above that, I will pay to the investors twice a year. So, whatever profit I can make, I didn't charge any management fees. I didn't do any of that. So I was only relying on lender fees those points to make a profit. Well, I quickly learned that it's not quite so easy to manage a fund. So I started a second one and I started charging management fees. Then I hit a non-accredited investor limit, which was 35 and this type of fund, and I started another fund and it was like this is going really well, but I want to advertise for it. So then we started a reg A, which is a public fund, and that was a challenging process dealing with the SEC. So while we were waiting for that to go through, we ended up starting another private fund. So now we have all of these different funds right. So that's a long way to answer your question. But if you're investing in our Reg A, which is the public fund, the qualification is very little because we could accept accredited and non-accredited investors and there's an infinite amount of those. We were capped at a dollar amount, a dollar raise, but not a number of investor raise. So the subscription agreement says don't invest more than 10% of your net worth. But if you signed that and you're agreeing not to do that, then we accept it, we don't qualify, we don't do anything. Okay, on the, we have a new 506C, which is a very common structure in the syndication world. That's a private fund but you're allowed to advertise it. So it's very it's different than most private funds. The problem is, you can only accept accredited investors, so in that case, then, we do have to qualify that the investor is accredited.

Marcus:

Yeah. And accredited and non-accredited, we could have a whole show on that, I'm sure. Cause I still have questions on that stuff that I it seems simple, but there are so many little nuances. Like you were saying, it's a struggle with the sec and all that stuff. That's true that man, it would go over my head.

Kevin Amolsch:

So let's say it's hard because you're talking about the government and regulators, right? So now you have to have audit. It's just like a regular public company. So you have full audited financials, you have twice a year financial reporting and it's not just sitting in a balance sheet. I mean, it's like a freaking, like 60 page report. So it's very intense, but because of that, if you're willing to go through those hoops and expenses, then you can accept non-accredited investors.

Marcus:

Right, right, and all of those funds that you have created, because that's a new angle for me that I've never got to talk to anybody or experience those funds that you set up, they don't cross streams at all. So if you're in this fund or if you're lending those financials from that fund, are separate from fund number two. Yes, that's right.

Kevin Amolsch:

Yeah, you got to keep them separate.

Marcus:

They're buckets of money that you can choose to allocate to certain properties, but you wouldn't take a little from bucket A and a little from bucket B, because each bucket is balanced out. If I'm thinking about this.

Kevin Amolsch:

Yeah, you're thinking of it correctly. Now, if we have a big loan, like, let's say, we do a two or $3 million loan, that's a lot of exposure on one loan. So we might split that up amongst the funds. So we might say, hey, three different funds, take 600 or whatever you know, and then that way if there's a default, it it. It lessens the impact on any one fund. So we do do that, but it's a fractional ownership, so it's not like we're commingling anything. It's you own 33%, you own 33% and I own 34%.

Marcus:

Yeah, and then it'd be basically your pine financials responsibility to make sure, if you tap into multiple buckets, that they're leveraged correctly where you're not tapping into a bucket that already has high liability on that bucket correct, yeah, and we constantly test that right.

Kevin Amolsch:

You have to have your proper allocations. Now, as a private lender, we're not required to do that, it's just good business, right. And so we're going to have proper allocations in each of the funds so that we have the correct diversification.

Marcus:

That's. That is so cool, and so over my head.

Kevin Amolsch:

So here's an example. So I told you I love residential properties, right? So we have made a decision internally to do 80% of our portfolio allocated to residential property, 80% or more. Percent of our portfolio allocated to residential property, 80 percent or more. We will not go over 20 percent of the portfolio and this is across the board, all funds. We will not go over 20 percent allocation to commercial real estate. I want to be heavy in residential because I can get out of it if I need to get out of it Inside of that bucket we have. Okay, here's our new construction. That slows us down. We make less money on it and there is exposure because if there's a market shift in the two-year process that takes you to build the house now, I'm taking on some market risk that I wouldn't be taking on on a fix and flip, all right. So now we have an allocation for inside the residential bucket for new construction, right, Okay?

Marcus:

That's cool, all right. New construction, right. Okay, that's. That's cool in all right. You mentioned that. Okay, if we have a three million dollar project, you could tap into multiple buckets. Have you guys come upon a three million dollar renovation on the residential side, and what do those projects look like if they're a fix and flip rather than a new build?

Kevin Amolsch:

yeah, you're in milwaukee, so this might be hard for you to believe those numbers are unfathomable, like who is renovating their house for $3 million. So a lot of those $3 million deals are those are oftentimes those are the commercial type or multifamily type stuff. Okay, in DC it would be unusual to see less than a million dollar rehab. Really Our loans out there are one million or higher for our fix and flip stuff and the new construction. Like we're doing a lot of new construction spec stuff in Denver. Great sponsors, great neighborhoods, low loan to values, all of that. But these houses sell for between four and five million a house. So we might have a two, two and a half million dollar loan because that's what it takes to build that quality of home yeah, interesting, yeah, then you go into your.

Marcus:

That's just a. I don't a market, I guess example, because and that's in milwaukee- yeah, our numbers are a little bit different in terms of a rehab, because when you can get in and out on a good flip for 100 000 on a residential single family but yeah when you start going into bigger buildings. Yeah, it'll go up, but yeah, I know Wisconsin's lower on that average rate for properties. Speaking of Wisconsin.

Kevin Amolsch:

I just took my daughter to the Wisconsin Dells.

Dan:

Oh, that's so amazing.

Marcus:

Yeah, not to go off topic, but that's a really cool place and it has been there since I was a kid. I remember going up there when I was like a toddler and just running amok through Noah's Ark and all that stuff.

Kevin Amolsch:

We went to Noah's Ark.

Marcus:

Yeah, that was great, that was cool. Well, we are coming up in an hour. I don't want to pull you any longer than this, but was there anything else that you wanted to promote within Pine, because we can go on from? I could ask you about the books that you've written, which we will tie into the show notes, because I've actually read one of them. Oh, you did I read, not the 45 Day Investor. What was your? It was the first one On your flip. Yes, I read that one.

Kevin Amolsch:

A new one For the 45 Day Investor. Here's the story about that one quickly, because I know we're out of time. People were asking me constantly. So I'd go to these RIAs, right, and people would ask me constantly, how are you buying a house, or two a month? Or on the online forums. I was just it's a regular thing. So I was like, well, maybe I should. Just, people are curious about this. Maybe I'll just like write a book about you know my story, how I personally did it. Well, so that's supposedly going to be like a biography. Right, that I totally failed at writing a biography. It's definitely a how-to book. So it has the forums, the scripts, the everything you would need to actually like. You literally have your attorney review the forums, for sure, but you could literally use that book and go out and buy a property. That's.

Marcus:

That's the absolute goal I had when I wrote that so your suggestion is um rich dad, poor dad, then fund your flip. Those are your first two books as you get into real estate yeah, let's go with that.

Kevin Amolsch:

Yeah, fund your flip and 45 day investor. Yeah, the 45 investor is definitely geared to newer investors, like if you're just getting started and you want to buy with no money down the fund, your flip is highly focused on financing. So real estate funding, because that's the part that makes the most people nervous and there's just not a lot of literature out there. Now you might get a chapter in a fix and flip book, for example, on how to fund it, but it's it's like missing so much. There's too many holes in that chapter. It really deserved an entire book. So that's that's what I did.

Marcus:

Yeah, and with that book, cause I'm going to ask you a second follow-up question within that 45 day investor what's your one takeaway on that book that you hope readers take from the funding side of it? Cause there are a lot of nuances.

Kevin Amolsch:

Both books. I mean, look, it's possible, guys, it's possible and it's going to be hard and you're going to fall down and you're going to fail and that's part of the journey to your success. So embrace that and just do it. Because here's the problem no one does it. They say they want to do it. They spend the money on the seminar, they spend the money on the book and then they're not going to do anything with it. And I just drives me crazy and I just I hurt for them. I hurt for them because you do have it in you to be successful.

Marcus:

Yeah Right, you just have to get through the obstacle there's going to be that obstacle, yep, and the quicker you get through it, and even just getting through it, even if you stumble through it, you're better off than quitting.

Kevin Amolsch:

And even just getting through it, even if you stumble through it, you're better off than quitting. Yeah, look, start so you can experience the obstacle. You got to get to the obstacle first and then start looking for help, like you don't have to do this alone, right, right, and with people like you.

Marcus:

Obviously you know your numbers. If you can get in with a lender who's going to help you out and help you with your numbers as you begin, the fear should lessen on that, because then you can lean on other people that have been doing this for a while. Just make the connections there.

Kevin Amolsch:

Just learn how to protect your money. I'm talking about earnest money when I said that comment. You can write your offers and have no earnest money. There doesn't have to be earnest money in a real estate transaction, right. But if you are going to put earnest money down, then make sure you protect it. And once you have that, then get the thing under contract, because you have no risk why wouldn't you? And then go go get some help.

Marcus:

Yep, that's cool. Well, I like the confidence that you've got. We've got some deals coming your way, by the way. We got a couple here in Wisconsin that we're looking for. That would be a flip. So what do you? I guess this is a good question for the public If they're going to send you a deal? What qualifications do you?

Kevin Amolsch:

need. So the best thing to do is go to the website and fill out the online pre-qualification application. And it's free, and and we're not pulling your credit, we don't even verify anything. So tell us the truth, please, and then we'll get you qualified, and then we'll get you the loan commitment letter. Like, if you have a loan commitment letter, you can make offers with confidence. Right, and it's free. So why wouldn't you do that? The commitment letter is very generic. There's no property address or loan amount, so you could just use it over and over and over and over, cause it might take you 30 or 40 offers or LOIs to get one seller that's willing to pay or willing to sell for what you want to pay. It's going to take work and maybe a lot of offers. So that's why we do the generic commitment letter. So that's how you do it. We're highly focused on quality deals and liquidity, so we could potentially fund a hundred percent of your transaction, but that doesn't mean you don't need any money, because you're going to run into obstacles. You're going to go over your budget, it's going to take longer than you thought. These are just reality. So do you have the reserves to get you through that challenge. If you do, you've got a good deal. Let's find a way to work together.

Marcus:

Awesome. Well, we will find a way to work together. This is too small of a world not to yeah this I would love to do that.

Kevin Amolsch:

I love to jump on a podcast where I have no idea what I'm getting into and you telling me that that you've had experience with the company, so that's really cool.

Marcus:

Yep, yeah, and now it's coming to fruition, because I know it was about a year ago and I reached out the deal we had got sold from what I thought was a done deal and I was like, oh crap, I'm going to wait for the next deal to come through. And before the next deal came through, you're on the show. That's awesome, I know it was cool. So, um well, thanks for giving us the time. We'll put a link to your books on the show notes. We'll put a link to the website so people who are interested or have a deal for you can go on, click that link and put in the info. And then what's the?

Kevin Amolsch:

best way for people to contact you is still a website. Yeah, I think I want to mention this other website real quick because I think there's this could benefit your listener. So there's a lot of concern about the economy right now higher for longer and potential inflation. And is it a soft landing? Is it a crash? What's coming? So I compared this time, this potential recession to one in the past that has a lot of resemblance. So that's in 1990. And that's coming out of the savings and loans crash, right when. That's when we had hyperinflation and high interest rates. So none of us are old enough to remember this, but it's 15, 16, 17, 18% mortgage rates, right. So this time compares to that. It does not compare to 2008. Okay, there's no resemblance. So if we're going to learn from history, we've got to find the right time to study. So I wrote a report to help people understand what that was and how it relates to today, and you can get that for free at the pine reportcom. So, totally free, the pine reportcom.

Marcus:

You know those ones you do periodically.

Kevin Amolsch:

I get the most questions about the economy and so much fear around that. So there's two reports on there that how to stay safe as a private lender, but the one about the economy is definitely downloaded a hell of a lot more because I think it's more relevant for a broader group. So and then you can just I mean, we just try to keep that updated right, Because it's constantly changing, that's an awesome read.

Marcus:

That'll be great for the viewers and for myself. I'll be reading that as well. Yeah, I think you get some value from it?

Kevin Amolsch:

Oh, definitely, it was kind of a fun project to put together. It's like I was back in school. I felt like I was in college again studying the crash in 1990, but it was fun. I didn't even know there was a crash of 90. Yeah, I call it a crash. It was a 14% decline in real estate values. You know, most recessions don't impact real estate, right being one of them and the one we all remember, but a lot of recessions don't even impact real estate Interesting, and I was born in 90.

Marcus:

So I remember nothing. I wasn't even close to owning a home.

Kevin Amolsch:

I was in middle school, so I don't remember either.

Marcus:

Yeah. So I'm looking forward to comparing that one because, like I always tell people, it's always cyclical. So what we're in right now, now we're going to get the opposite. I don't know when it's going to happen, but we'll get the opposite. I can guarantee we'll get the opposite. So take the positives of what we have right now and stop dwelling on the negatives, because then it's going to swing back and you're going to find the negatives again. You're not going to want to do it then, but what can you work with within the parameters you have?

Kevin Amolsch:

Look, people make money in all economic times. Typically make more money in harder economic times, but you can make money in any economic time. You just need to understand what you're in. Yeah.

Marcus:

Who is the financial guru who always talks about when people run, I buy. Do they all say that?

Kevin Amolsch:

Robert Dahlia Gates probably.

Marcus:

Or Buffett Buffett. They all say that robert dahlia gates probably.

Kevin Amolsch:

or, uh, buffett buffett, it's buffett when people run, I buy. When there's blood in the streets, he says right, yeah yeah, well, very cool.

Marcus:

You are a wealth of knowledge. I'm gonna pick your brain offline as well, but thank you for being on the show sharing it with the viewers. Um, we'll get all your info on the show notes. We'll send you a copy so you can send it out to your network as well. But, man, thank you for being on the show. Great to connect with you. I know we'll talk soon.

Kevin Amolsch:

Yeah, dan Marcus, thank you so much for having me. It was a lot of fun, man. Hopefully I added some value to you and your listener.

Marcus:

You did. You added value to me. I gained knowledge on this one which I love in podcasts because I know I don't know everything but man the financial world. There are so many little nuances when you get into it that you learn something new every time you talk to somebody so I've been doing this for two decades.

Kevin Amolsch:

I still learn, like every day I learn yeah, and that's the.

Marcus:

That's the reason for doing it. I feel like that makes it exciting. So, very cool, we'll let you get on with your day. Thanks for giving us the time. I appreciate it. All right, gentlemen, thank you. We'll talk soon.