Revitalizing Mobile Home Parks: Frank Rizzo on Affordable Housing and Real Estate Strategies

What if the key to solving the affordable housing crisis lies within the often-overlooked mobile home parks? Join us as we sit down with Frank Rizzo, an expert in affordable housing and co-founder of a real estate company started during the tumultuous Great Recession. Frank shares his compelling journey from a young real estate licensee to revolutionizing mobile home parks through his YouTube series, "Trailer Park Turnaround." Discover the transformative power of turning neglected trailer parks into vibrant and thriving communities, and how responsible investment can create lasting pathways to homeownership.

In our conversation, we dive deep into the dynamics of the real estate market, focusing on areas like Staten Island and the unique challenges posed by iBuyers. We explore the historical growth of these regions and the significance of local expertise in navigating diverse housing markets. Frank provides an inside look at transitioning from traditional real estate to mobile home parks, highlighting the benefits such as long-term resident retention and community impact. Learn about the intricacies of structuring mobile home park deals, from park-owned homes to tenant-owned homes, and the importance of fostering strong community ties.

We also tackle the infrastructure challenges of maintaining year-round mobile home parks, especially in colder climates, and the recent surge in RV popularity during economic downturns. Frank shares his insights into finding and training property managers specifically suited for mobile home parks, and the potential pitfalls of hiring traditional property managers. The episode wraps up with a discussion on "impact capitalism" and how investing in mobile home parks can generate economic returns while significantly improving residents' lives. Tune in to understand why mobile home parks are a critical piece of the affordable housing puzzle and how they can offer viable, appealing solutions in today's real estate landscape.

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Chapter Timestamps

(00:03) - Mobile Home Park Turnaround Strategy

(06:29) - Changing the Narrative on Affordable Housing

(17:31) - Real Estate Market Dynamics and Affordability

(28:49) - Mobile Home Park Investment Strategy

(34:00) - Year-Round Infrastructure for Mobile Homes

(45:58) - Property Management Challenges for Mobile Homes

(55:14) - Preserving Mobile Home Parks Through Investment

(01:00:47) - Mobile Home Park Investment and Management

(01:05:06) - Real Estate Investing Strategies

Highlight Timestamps

(00:09 - 01:13) Changing the Narrative Through Investment (64 Seconds)

(03:32 - 05:50) Community Living and Affordable Housing (139 Seconds)

(24:10 - 25:43) Affordable Housing Crisis in America (93 Seconds)

(28:49 - 30:01) Real Estate Consultant Invests in Park (71 Seconds)

(31:32 - 32:31) Mobile Home Park Deal Structuring (59 Seconds)

(37:01 - 38:04) RV Division Development and Growth (63 Seconds)

(42:51 - 44:26) Building Community Through Word of Mouth (96 Seconds)

(48:23 - 49:59) Focus on Mobile Home Park Management (96 Seconds)

(01:04:32 - 01:06:12) Challenges With Co-Op Ownership (100 Seconds)

Transcript

00:03 - Marcus (Host)
okay then. Is there anything that you want to touch on during the show, or yeah? 

00:09 - Frank (Guest)
listen, we, we, we've been documenting what we're doing in the manufactured housing space through a program that we've put out called trailer park turnaround right, which is a youtube series which really shows, you know, because there's been a lot of new entrance into the mobile home park space probably in the last three, four years. 

00:29
It almost became a very you know it thing to do, you know, investing, yeah. So I think there's a false narrative that we're trying to kind of change a little bit, and that video series is one of the platforms that we're using to kind of get that word out. So if we can kind of work that in it's I don't know if you guys had a chance to see it, but it's a really like it's like it's an on the ground look of what it takes to turn around one of these trailer parks and the trailer park to a manufactured housing community. And we're trying to really help and solve, you know, do our part to solve the affordability crisis that we have in this country Because, quite frankly, you're in real estate, you know this. It is expensive to buy a home and entry level housing has become almost unattainable in the traditional sense and you know we have to relook at and rediscover. You know mobile home parks as a way to get people to home ownership. 

01:28 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, no, I like that. I like mobile home parks. I know they're a, I don't know they've got like this tainted name on them, but they're not bad properties and they're very, very practical and most of the people that go in there aren't like the trailer parks that people think of. 

01:49 - Frank (Guest)
They're nicer facilities, dan, I mean you hit the nail on the head there, right? So look, a lot of the reputation in a trailer park is well-deserved. So I'm not going to say it's not well-deserved, to say it's not well-deserved, but if you look out the history of how these communities were built, they weren't built with a quote-unquote master plan in mind or with someone who began as a real estate operator, right. So it typically began as, hey, I have this extra land and whatever I was doing on it is not producing enough income anymore. So now I'm going to build out some, I'm going to put out some trailers and I'm going to create some housing, and that was great. And then it just kind of expanded from there. I mean, that's, I don't want to say that's every case, but that's what happened and the people that now. Now it wasn't, it wasn't looked at as so much as a business but maybe an income stream, and so that gets handed down through the generations. And again, mom and pop might not have been the best operator and over time, if you're operating in states that maybe have a better landlord tenant legislation, where someone comes in and they're a bad actor, I could them out quicker. Maybe my standards weren't so high, maybe my, maybe I could do a background search, maybe I wouldn't do this. 

03:13
And over time, we there was a sustained period of disinvestment in the space, right, and I I think that is there's a reason why people have the narrative of the trailer park right, because that's typically what a trailer park is. 

03:32
But there's some other factors to to this community living that people miss out on. It's people like living in communities, right, and it's people like living together there. There's a social aspect of it. So what's happened is there's this thesis that, hey, a resident in a manufactured housing community will stay longer than in any other asset class, so they'll stay, on average, 17 and a half years, and so when investors look at that, that becomes very attractive. Hey, I've got residents that are living in quote unquote maybe substandard conditions and they'll stay for a long time. So that attracts people in there because it's a very sticky residence, very expensive to move one of these homes. The challenge is, or what you find is, people stay because there was a sense of a community. Maybe the community had bad roads, maybe the community you know was was quote unquote dirty or overgrown. But I had that emotional connection to the owner and to the other residents. 

04:36
And that's why I wanted to stay and what we've seen, you know cause we've been in the space 10 years, over 10 years now, over the last three, four years, while it became very niche to get in, I like to call it, like this, cold capital and again, I'm from New York, but I'll call it cold capital from places like New York that came in and said, well, I've got these residents that were tethered to the land so I can raise rents, I don't make any improvements and all of a sudden people are leaving or they're creating community upheaval because they're losing that emotional connection and they're not really truly adding value. 

05:10
What they're just trying to do is take what we look to do is kind of let people know we're not local, we're very hands-on and we want to maintain that sense of community but add that value and kind of change the connotation inside that city, wherever those parks are located, that hey, this is addressing your affordable housing issue. This is we're going to turn this around and turn it into a community where people are going to want to live there and create pathways of ownership for your residents to become homeowners and to build this community back up. 

05:45 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, I like that and not, I like that a lot. That affordable housing is something big. I actually just sat with my municipality last week and we talked about that one. So we'll, we'll get you introduced. And then I want to talk about just some general real estate in New York, and then we're going to hit the mobile home parks. Okay, does that sound like a good plan? 

06:07 - Frank (Guest)
Whatever you want to do, brother. 

06:08 - Marcus (Host)
And I'll try not to go down on too many rabbit holes, so we can fit this all in in an hour. 

06:13 - Frank (Guest)
I like rabbit holes. So whatever you want to do, I'm good. 

06:15 - Marcus (Host)
Perfect, then you're going to like the show, I hope. Okay, all right, welcome back to MVP Real Estate Podcast, season 4, episode 7. We have Frank Rizzo here. He is in a very unique niche of real estate which I think will pertain to 90% of the people listening. He talks about affordable housing and he's trying to change the narrative on mobile home parks. We're going to put a link in our show to his YouTube channel where he talks about the process of the updates and the integrations that he does with mobile home parks to bring them up to um, the new standard that he's putting, uh, building the community-based um, allowing those first-time home buyers to get priced in at a good spot for them not to rent for thousands of dollars a month to buy an actual asset class and start that financial freedom journey or just to own your own real estate. So, man, he has got a lot of knowledge. 

07:19
Great show. We'll put his contact information in because he is very knowledgeable in this very niche spot of real estate. So, without anything else, let's just bring him on. Thanks for being with us, frank. I appreciate the time spending it here on a Friday. And you said you're coming from New York area, so I've got so many questions because New York to me is a monstrous area, thinking we're from Wisconsin and you've got five boroughs that are just as big as our state. So thanks for giving us the time. I'm glad for you to join us here. 

07:58 - Frank (Guest)
Hey, dan and Marcus, it's a pleasure to be here, appreciate the opportunity of sitting down on your program and look forward to telling you a little bit about what we do and answering any questions that you have about New York or anything else real estate related. 

08:12 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, I've got many questions about New York. It was eye-opening when I was there. Before we jump into that, though, can we get like a 30-second background or maybe a minute if you want to? Just about where you came from, how you got into real estate, and then we'll jump into some New York real estate. Sure. 

08:32 - Frank (Guest)
So not to date myself too much, right, but I originally got my real estate license when I was 19 years old and at that point the MLS was a booklet that you got every Friday and you had to go through the book to find out what properties were listed in the areas that you were working in. 

08:51 - Marcus (Host)
I had no idea. They had a physical print. Mls yeah, that's awesome. 

08:57 - Frank (Guest)
So not to date myself, but that's how far back I go. But the attraction to real estate was always being involved in the deal flow and creating cash flow opportunities for myself right, and for investors, for people to be part of. So that's really my draw into the space. And when I came in, I really got a great education working with a developer managing their office, looking to buy distressed, mismanaged, you know properties, rehab them and move them and kind of put them back on market and redevelop them. And that was always my kind of unique ability finding, you know, undervalued properties in the markets that we operated in, you know. 

09:44
Fast forward a number of years, we opened up our own office focused on kind of alternative investment opportunities, and that led me to the manufactured housing space where, you know, I got involved in my first mobile home park, probably about 11 years ago, and since then my partner and I have been involved in my first mobile home park, probably about 11 years ago, and since then my partner and I have been involved in 24 communities in the Southeast. We've exited a number of them over the last few years, but we've launched a mobile home park platform where we help other people who are interested in affordable housing and affordable housing options to get involved with us and we recently launched a video series on YouTube called trailer park turnaround. That kind of documents, kind of our journey and story throughout Second version. 

10:40 - Marcus (Host)
I like that was good. That was good. And for those of you tuning in, if you have that negative connotation about mobile homes, listen to the show. It it. It'll surprise you. There's more to offer within those communities than the the cover of the book. I'll say so. You were going into your career 19, you're an agent. So you were going into your career 19, you're an agent. That's impressive, because I was not anywhere in my career at 19. It wasn't even in my brain. So for you to get a jumpstart on that, that is impressive. So at 19, how many years until you became a broker that you opened up your own office? 

11:22 - Frank (Guest)
So you know, from there, listen at 19,. You know, you don't always know where you're going to end up. So from there, we, you know, I ended up working on Wall Street for a little bit and then I came back into real estate because, you know, sitting behind the desk all day wasn't for me. So when I got back into real estate and really drilled down into real estate and really drill down probably been the last 22 years where it's been a focus and a drive down I launched my own company in 2009, like in the midst of the great recession, figuring listen, if you're going to start anywhere, you might as well start when the market's at its worst, because it can only get better. 

12:03
And I think you, anybody who's been in the market at that point you realize 2007, 2008, they were just challenging times all the way to really to 2012. But that was really. I thought. We thought, I thought anyway it was the best time to really jump in and just say, hey look, if I'm going to do this, I'm doing this for myself. There's no better time than now to do it. 

12:23 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, that's, that's a tough time to get into it. That was, uh, I was watching that one from the sidelines cause I didn't really get started until uh 13. So I was kind of, after all of that, um, the hardest thing we've had to weather right now was the COVID little bubble. So, yeah, I missed the whole crash of seven to yeah, I guess, lingered to 12. 

12:49 - Frank (Guest)
It lingered and it you know you saw a lot of markets really didn't start to accelerate to really like 2016,. The people getting back to where they were. 

12:58 - Dan (Co-host)
But even now. 

12:59 - Frank (Guest)
I mean, you're you experience or you start to see that you know we started to see a slowdown. That's similar in the real estate market, probably over the last 12 to 18 months. Prices haven't dropped right that hasn't dropped but the transactional value has definitely dropped and I think there is some similarity in that. So, as you're going through this phase and I think we probably have a little bit more to go transactional wise, that's something that you're going to be able to say that hey, I got through the high rates of, you know, 2022 to 25. And I think that'll be something that you'll be able to lean on, you know, to come. 

13:38 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, in real estate is all cyclical. So the people that are fighting through that now and getting through it and, like yourself, fought through that.8, 09. Little bubble there. It's all, unfortunately, probably going to happen again. To the extent we don't know, but something will happen. It's going to go up and down and I was just reading something earlier this week that in what was the time frame they said our parents or maybe our grandparents would live off of 35,000 a year and have basically medium income, and today you have to make 125 to meet that same quality of living. So it is wildly different than even in the past, but same similar trends in that way. 

14:30 - Frank (Guest)
Sure, you know it's. Listen, it's challenging because when you talk about median income and where it goes, I mean you hit such a great point there because you know prices have accelerated faster than income growth. Right, and it's challenging for somebody to start out now, right, where the average, you know, the median home price across the nation is over five hundred thousand dollars a year. Yeah, so, over five hundred thousand, and the money that you have to the income you have to generate to do that, um, to buy that average median price house in the US, is significant, right, so you know we, you know it's. It's challenging for people to find entry level housing. Yeah, you know, especially right now with rates so high, and just, you know we don't have the supply of homes necessary. 

15:23
You know, in this country we've had a decade of under under development, quite frankly, and you know that's an issue that we're going to have to work through, you know, for for quite a while. 

15:32 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, and you talk to any city planner, uh within your local community and you go talk to them about uh feasibility and getting like a more low income housing. It is everywhere it's a need. 

15:47
So it doesn't matter what municipality you're in, rural or urban, they're going to need some sort of housing. So I'm looking forward to touching on that one with you Before we get into that just general New York real estate numbers, because in Wisconsin we don't have boroughs, you've got your little like southeastern Wisconsin, central and you can kind of get your comps. I feel like New York and I might be off, so you can correct me on this one would be very difficult to to comp a property because everything is so condensed. You have, I mean you have subdivisions, but everywhere that I visited it would be hard to try and find a direct comp to it. Do you find that at all, or how does that all work? 

16:41 - Frank (Guest)
That's a very interesting question, right, and I guess it's where you get accustomed. Interesting question right Because and I guess it's where you get accustomed to it, right. So you do have some variables in New York, right, because you don't have the larger track developments that you may be able to build in other parts of the other parts of the nation. But you do find housing similarities, right. So if I have a, you know, side hall, colonial, right, that's 2000 square feet, and if I do a radius, usually there's builders or styles in certain neighborhoods that that become prevalent, right. So you can find, with some slight variations, you can find similar type housings to be able to create good comparables to move forward, and so you're able to work through that. So, in one way, right. 

17:31
And just a couple of years ago when the iBuying you know everybody started getting iBuyers, you know they came into markets like Phoenix because they could go in and they could say all right, I'm in the development 500 homes, I know that house is worth 325, all day long, I can make this bid, I can make this offer. Having that differentiation and not having everything in a row kind of kept iBuyers, I believe, out of our market and it wasn't such a pressing issue because they couldn't deal with or the algorithms couldn't pick up that variance. Like you know, this house was built. You know, a 2006 side hall and a 2009 side hall could be completely different, right, different builder, different style, and there's subtle differences that made one maybe more valuable than the next. So that's a great question. It does require a professional to kind of take a look and guide through that. It does create a little challenges, but I guess it's. If you know the market nuances, you can, you can kind of work through those questions. 

18:36 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, yeah, and I would imagine the agents don't really step out of their borough, so like if you're an agent in Long Island out of their borough, so like if you're an agent in Long Island you are just doing that borough. If you're in Manhattan, you're just doing men, because otherwise you'd, you'd lose your mind. 

18:54 - Frank (Guest)
A thousand percent. Right, that is. That is such a great point. So occasionally, you know you'll have some like you might pick up from Staten Island. You might pick up something from Brooklyn. Sometimes you get somebody from Brooklyn pick up something from Staten Island. Everybody like we have a and I've you. I know you've been to New York before, but if you had to cross the Verrazano bridge, it is the most expensive bridge in the country. It's $20 to cross. 

19:18
I had people each time so, and I've had people in our industry say, hey, we got to go and we got to talk about. You know, when they have these meetings about poll raises, I'm like you're crazy, because would you want it? Like you know we're from Staten Island. We get the easy pass. It costs us six bucks. Do you want a Brooklyn you know agent to come over to Staten Island and get a $6, you know're never going to pay 25 bucks to show a home and it'll give us a little bit more option. 

19:47
But you're right, in in this market you have to concentrate in an area in a market that you know you can't really spread out geographically. You just you just won't be able to do it or do it effectively. Like you know, I have referrals that I'd rather give out in queens and bronx, you know, because I just I wouldn't be an effective advocate for my client. And this all goes back to you know where we are best as real estate professionals is knowing your market right and knowing your space and not trying to be a jack of all trades. You know be, you know market specific. 

20:23 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, and with the population in the uh, the space you have, there's more than enough real estate to go around if you narrow down. 

20:31 - Frank (Guest)
Just on Staten Island alone, I mean, in a good market they would be 5,200 transactions a year. That's 10,400 sides. I mean if you can't earn a living inside of that, then maybe this isn't going into another market where you know isn't going to help you. 

20:50 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, yeah. And the other thing I've been to New York and I've been to Boston. I can't say enough bad things about Boston, and I'm not just saying that because you're a New Yorker. Boston was chaotic, but the one thing that I realized with the real estate is the age of all those buildings, because obviously that is like the start of the country was all in that east, that northeast corridor. So how does that factor in with the age of homes in the historic kind of like I'm not gonna call them boroughs, but those little pockets of historic buildings? How does that play into your real estate? Or is that not really a big factor of how you analyze things? 

21:33 - Frank (Guest)
So for where we are in Staten Island it's not a big factor. I'm sure in other areas in pockets it's more prevalent. Staten Island, a lot of Staten Island was built after the Verrazano Bridge was built in like 1963, 1962. So a lot of that started to build from there and, quite frankly, in the last 30 years Staten Island has seen a huge growth like the population has gone from 300,000 to nearly 500,000. So that growth over the last 20 years or 30 years is where a lot of the building stock has come into. So we don't have a tremendous amount of 200-year-old homes. I know in Manhattan that's a little bit more of an. You know that's something that's a little bit more prevalent, but not really in Staten Island. 

22:26 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, so you're still hitting on some of those newer builds, like there's still areas for development in Staten Island. 

22:45 - Frank (Guest)
So now I guess we're in a bedroom community and people on Staten Island kind of move to Staten Island because they like that bedroom community. We're the most, we're probably the most distinct of all the boroughs and so the push right now in New York City is that they, you know, the only place they can go is up, right, so they want to go up Staten Island and Staten Islanders really prefer to keep it as a, you know, one and two family home community. That's really been the push. It's a bedroom community and for most people, residents of Staten Island, the reason why they moved here is because they wanted to kind of get away from that. You know where these other boroughs are. They're always going up. We were looking for or if you polled the residents. 

23:26 - Marcus (Host)
They want less density, not more yeah, and that leads into, like what you're focusing on, which is sustainability, those trailer parks, the community-based living which I know I'd mentioned. Talking to my municipality, it wasn't really trailer parks because in our area one you can't make any more new ones. All you can do is buy existing and, like you're saying, pretty much rehab those and get that community feel back. But additional dwelling units is something that's on the books that every municipality is talking about. Some pass, some don't like it. It's all kind of this big gray area. 

24:10 - Frank (Guest)
So you know, and it's so funny you say that because there is, you have these cities, right, and everybody can agree, right, the number one economic issue facing Americans today is affordability and housing. Affordability because it affects everyone and you could be doing very well, but you're going to have children that are starting out, and I have children that are at the age they still need entry-level housing and that's a need for them. So, where I might be, 25 years of my career and where they are two different spots, and so, by not having affordable housing options, there isn't a municipality in this country that's doing well with that. And what people? What they don't want, right, what they number one say is like, hey, we don't want any more mobile home parks, right, or we don't want any manufactured housing communities, like that's a no-no. However, there's no more affordable housing issue, right? No more affordable housing than manufactured housing. 

25:08
So if you think about what most communities are doing, they're saying, hey, we're not going to build any more manufactured housing units or communities and, quite frankly, there is a limited supply, right? So if you look at this sector, there's 43,000 to 44,000 mobile home parks in the country. That's it. Every year, we close more than we built. So think about this the most affordable housing option is diminishing at a time where people need more affordable housing options. It makes this a very intriguing asset class as an investment. But it also cries for people to re-examine what we're really doing here, because we're kind of missing the boat and some of the bad connotations people have about trailer parks. We're kind of throwing the baby out with the bath water because you cannot build right. You cannot build an apartment right and have it have it uh, out there in the public for the same price that I can offer somebody a home for. 

26:19
Like it's the apartments more money and the apartment is money that these residents will never get back yeah, absolutely. 

26:27 - Marcus (Host)
And that's where because I first learned about mobile home parks when I was listening to bigger pockets. Before I was even a real estate investor, I was just I'm on the sidelines trying to learn and they're talking about how nice these asset classes are and how they're looked down on and I started to read them and I was like man, I got caught in that same thing, like thinking that they were, they couldn't get housing anywhere else and all the negative connotations that go with the, the manufactured home or the trailer parks. But once you actually dive into it and you look at the numbers of it, it makes sense and there is a market for it. There absolutely is. 

27:06
And that's why I'm a proponent for ADUs, because I can't push for more mobile homes. That's too big of a fish for me to try and catch. But if we can do ADUs, I feel like that's a small win for this affordability crisis that we're kind of in. So that's my mindset on it and obviously you think pretty similar to it. When did you first get started with mobile home parks? Like what was your first right? So it's not something that I'm going to do every day. 

27:41 - Frank (Guest)
But back in 2008, right 2009, I was introduced to a family who, you know, first generation entrepreneur, came to this country, right, built, very, you know, had some small stores, didn't have a 401k and what he did was he took his money and he bought multifamily buildings in Brooklyn, right, and he amassed a very nice size portfolio an eight family, a 20 unit building with some stores. You know, a couple of four families. And now he was getting up in age, right and, and you know, lovely guy, salt of the earth, but he was like your grandfather, right and so when people had tough economic times what happens? They weren't paying their grandfather rent, and so he had 100% occupancy, 45% credit loss and he was dealing with some challenges that we had to deal with, you know, and we had to pay down some debt and we had to get some things right. So we did that. We had a strategy, a plan. We did the whole thing and people did what most people do, right? No one. 

28:49
When they retire, they don't stay up North, they go down South, and he went down to North Carolina and they were very happy with their services, with me, and, but they had to replace their income so we're selling their last of their 20 unit apartment building. They said, hey, we've got to find something to replace this with and we're going to do a 1031 exchange. And they wanted me to consult with them on finding some replacement properties. Ok, so, as I'm going through the opportunities that were there, the things that keep popping up were these mobile home parks. I was like knew nothing about the space, knew nothing about. 

29:26
But looking at the thesis that you know, residents will stay, on average, 17 and a half years if the park is clean, safe and secure. Looking at some of the tax benefits that you get in that investment, looking at kind of said, we should, you know you should exchange into a mobile home park. This is what you should be doing. And he looked at me. He said, frank, I'll only do it if you stay in the deal with me. So now I have put my money where my mouth was. I had to stay invested in the deal, which I did, and I knew nothing about it, and I had to run the deal from a distance. We were in Southern Georgia. I'm in New York and we did very well and not knowing anything that I knew today, but kind of learning on the fly. We did very well, performed well, economically performed well and we were able to create a consistent income stream for my client, which was the most important thing, and we have the community and at that point it really checked all the boxes, marcus, of what I look for. 

30:34
You know, in doing what we do right, like we all want to make money, that's fine, that's why we do it, right. You're here for an economic reason, right, but you want to have an impact, you want to see change, you want to see improvement to your customers' lives, and you could see the impact we were having there. And then, you know, I have a partner and me and him have been, you know, investment partners for a number of years and I said, hey, we really got to investigate this space. You know, just got tired of dealing with some of the bureaucracy in New York and we just started with our first park ourselves in our investment platform, like pulling teeth. You know, nobody wanted to invest 800 miles away, but 24 parks later, it's the best thing I ever did in real estate and I'm so glad I'm in the space and we're looking just to continue forward and grow the platform. 

31:26 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, that's a cool story, it's very unique. Forward and grow the platform. Yeah, that's a cool story, it's very unique. I don't think we've had someone on the show focus in on trailer park homes and those deals are very unique, not just like the asset class. So can you give us you don't have to give us like your secret sauce, but when you structure a mobile home park deal, what are those little nuances that come into play that don't come into play in a typical residential home? 

31:55 - Frank (Guest)
You know what? That's a great question, because this business is about nuances, right, because this is a business and we always talk about it. This is a business of nickels and dimes, right? When you're looking at lot rent, which is a smaller portion, it's almost like a community fee, right. So you have to be very it's a business that's very nuanced. So when you buy a park, right, every deal could be a little different. Sometimes you're getting homes which are called park owned homes. Sometimes the residents own all the homes right, which are called tenant-owned homes, or sometimes you're getting a mixed bag of both, right? 

32:32
We tend to like when residents own their homes, right? 

32:36
So if we buy a park and we own the homes, we want to give those residents that don't own the homes and that are renting for us. 

32:43
We want to give them a pathway to home ownership and give them a value on the home, and we want them to own the home. 

32:49
And the reason is we found that when residents own the home, they stay longer, they care more, they realize that hey, I'm not going to be transitory, right, they'll take more particular attention to, maybe what's happening inside the community, right, if someone's not the you know, not the right fit if someone's collecting garbage, if someone's not doing what they're supposed to do or following community rules, because they're equally as vested as you are in some cases more right Because you have their largest asset on your property and they have a vested interest in making sure that that park is run right. 

33:25
So, for us, we want to give our residents right a pathway to home ownership. We want them to not only be a place where they love to live, but be a place where they're happy to refer to their friends, their cousins, their co-workers to come join them. So we look at making value-added improvements to the community, whether it's to infrastructure, to cleanliness, to beautification, to amenities that can really enhance their life, and providing them a pathway to home ownership, and we feel that that's really been our recipe for success. 

34:00 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, and in our area I've noticed obviously the difference between like a campground, where you bring your manufactured home or your camper in but then they shut it down in October, november, over the winter, as opposed to a mobile home where people can live there year round, correct? Teach me something here. Like in colder climates, new York gets hit probably worse than we do. What are the infrastructure things that you've seen that you've had to like, implement or install to make it a year round? Sometimes they are already. So, how does that? 

34:43 - Frank (Guest)
work so. So one of the things that we did and there's a number of reasons, like we because I did do property management in New York we've kind of divested out of New York and we're focused in the Sunbelt just for that reason Because, quite frankly, I never realized what my father used to say, like, hey, I want to go down South as you get older, but if you have a choice, I'd rather be where it's 70 degrees in the wintertime, right, yep? So we don't have to worry so much about pipes freezing. In the markets that we serve, however we do, you know there's chills that do come back out and you do got to make sure that there's certain things that you do do where maybe you remind residents to keep a little drip in their faucet, right, to make sure that things don't freeze over, or to protect whatever is exposed. Make sure the pipes are wrapped if they are exposed, which we'll do anyway, just for good precaution. 

35:35
So you know we we've we've haven't ventured into Wisconsin because some of those, those items, but one of the things that I would make sure of and I know that other operators have to make sure of in those areas is your infrastructure. Are your pipes, are they copper pipes or are they PVC? Because if they're not PVC, you might have to port them over, right? Because copper pipes will have a tendency of freezing If they're not 18 inches below the ground you've got. So these are things that you've got to worry about. Where those aren't really our concerns, we have some, some different, you know, climate concerns that we'll make sure of. But but uh, we've purposely um tried to uh, my fingers get cold in in january so uh tried to stay away from there no, I don't blame you. 

36:26 - Marcus (Host)
It was just one of those things that I've thought of because, like everybody in the summer goes out to their campground and like you were talking about the legacy and the, the lineage that these people keep and they stay for 17 years out here. There are campgrounds that people have and they buy those campgrounds if not annually, every like decade they redo it and they'll pass it down to their grandkids or their kids and then they pass it down to their kids and they've now had like four generations in the same trailer park or or campground, I guess so. 

36:59 - Frank (Guest)
So we have a couple of those. We actually, you know, started a division into that rv space, right. So we started to, and so we have a couple of sites one that we're in developing, one that we're in the process, like we took over and we've revamped it. It's like right on, right off of 231, which highway 231 in Alabama takes you to the Florida Panhandle with a 20 acre lake, you know. So, for that you want to make sure that you have amenities, right, so we have a lake that's stocked with, you know, 14 pound bass. Any fishermen out there listening, we just put in a fishing pier so you can go there on your way. Or a panhandle maybe catch a bass, right, but you want to make sure that it becomes a site that people want to go to right and tracks people in and and listen you. 

37:48
You know, as far as like, there's a lot of similarities between mh and rv, but one thing I'll tell you in the last 14 years, like rv, the rv industry has exploded, where now there's about 10.8 million people who own rvs. It really exploded during the great recession where people were taking those, those, those vacations, where they which was a little bit more of a savings. And then COVID hit, and then more people decided to go RVing because they didn't want to be around anybody and they wouldn't fly. And they were and all of a sudden we've seen that, hey, people like that lifestyle, they like being able to travel, go to different spots or finding a campground that they really like and they could spend some time there, and now it becomes their place away from home, and I think that's a great point. And when they find a good spot, they don't want to leave it. 

38:40
They don't want to lose it. They will lock it in for a year, they'll renew, they'll stay and we're delving into that in a couple of communities where we think we could uh put out some really great product and and and hope to have a great response. 

38:54 - Marcus (Host)
We expect to have a great response from from uh, from people on it yeah, yeah, and especially like you're talking about all those amenities that you're adding in, um, like the fishing spots and all that um, do you find that there's always something that that you come in and, uh, a mobile home park is lacking, that you constantly are like, okay, we're going to come in, we're going to redo this, we're going to add this feature? Is there anything like that that you're seeing? Or is it really just like a case-by-case basis? We're going to update the homes and then sell them off, or I guess. What's your mindset on that one? 

39:32 - Frank (Guest)
So you know what? That's a great question, because I'm going to tell you the one thing that people I think a lot of people overlook, especially the new entrants that come into the space. The most important thing you can do in any park you take over is instill a culture, right, and you want to instill an accountability culture for yourself and for your residents, right. And by doing that right, it's low cost, right, but it's such high impact because it's being accountable, telling residents what you're going to do, setting expectations, but you following through on your end first, right. So when we take over a park and every park could be in a different condition, hey, I wanna set the standard in our homes that we might've taken over. I wanna raise the standards up. 

40:24
So if the homes we have are, they haven't been power washed, the roofs haven't been cool sealed, or the decks are dilapidated or the homes aren't skirted, how can I ask you, marcus, to do something to raise your standards if I haven't done it first? 

40:48
And my team, right, like, hey, this is what we're going to do, but I also want to let the residents know that, hey, these are the expectations, because you're going to be living in a place that you're going to want to call home and when you drive in you're going to feel proud to be there. So the most important thing that we look to do from day one is instilling a culture inside those communities, because typically you know when we're the communities we take, typically you know when we're are the communities we take over. You know they've they've they've gotten a little tired or stale with their current ownership. You know, maybe they've, you know, in a second or third generation and they're just not active or they're not local and it's just not something that they're. They're minding the store day to day and we want to change that feel and we find that that's the most impactful thing we can do in any community that we buy. 

41:30 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, yeah. And that culture thing made me think of kind of an analogy to like an HOA, where the HOA is kind of there to hold the culture and the rules and the standards. It's not a true HOA because I'm guessing you don't have a board, but they're the ones that implement the restrictions on what you can and can't do and the standard of living that this community is going to live by, because those subdivisions that are built that have HOAs, they are a mini community. You know your neighbor, you like your neighbor, they obviously are on board with the same type of living that you're living in, because that's why you chose the, the house in that hoa. I live in the city, I'm on like the outskirts of the city, but still technically the city. I know two of my neighbors by name and that's about it. But you go into these smaller communities, these trailer homes or those hoas and your friends and your Facebook friends, with all of your neighbors, because they're all connected. 

42:32 - Frank (Guest)
You hit the nail on the head Right and so, listen, I've been in. You know I've had different asset classes that I had been in. You know I've had office building, I've been retail, I've had mixed use, I've had apartments. You know I've never been in an asset class where you know you have somebody. If you're running your community well, you're doing a good job, your resident becomes your best marketing campaign ever Because they will call in their friends and family to live with them. 

43:04
And a good community has pockets where people all have like some sort of connection right, and one person is the center of influence that brought all these other people in because, to your point, they do feel like it's a community. 

43:18
They want that community feel and that's to us. That's when we know that we're doing our job well, that when our residents are saying, hey, by the way, here's my coworker, he's looking for a place. I gave him your number, please reach out to them. You know you have a home that's available. Like that's where we want to make sure our communities are. Like that's our goal, where you know our marketing is happening internally from the people that live there and they just want to share where they're living with the people. They know and that's how we run our communities to get to that point when we take them over. So you have to instill, you know, you have to instill a culture, you have to be accountable, you have to make improvements and you have to provide value, like they've got to see, like, hey, I'm here, there's a value to being here and I'm willing to tell the people I know who like me to come here as well. 

44:07 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, yeah and and to be, um, to be kind of focused on that culture and you being out of state, you obviously you obviously have to set up some processes for your community members to feel, um, I don't know welcomed and and heard. So, with you being in New York investing in Georgia, the Sunbelt, do you have on-site managers for every property? Or how do you guys navigate the communication from tenants or homeowners to you guys in the office? 

44:43 - Frank (Guest)
Great, great question. So, yeah, every community has a community manager, right? Has somebody that's going to be their point of contact. We look to operate in geographic hubs, so when we're in a market we try to operate in geographical areas around there. So our team, you know where we might have maintenance, people grounds, people can kind of circulate and maintain standards right inside of that region. 

45:09
And then we back up our community managers with a, with a office that we built overseas that does all the back-end admin work and that can maintain the touches. And we could do it in a very effective and efficient manner where we can maintain constant contact with our residents without necessarily us being down there on the ground and could provide back-end support for our managers. Let them do what they need to do, Let them be our brand ambassador, right, that's their role to be the ambassador for us. And on top of that, I mean my partner and I very you know, we'd like to be hands-on to stay on top of what's going on, but we trust that we have a good team down on the ground that's going to be able to instill that culture and make sure that our residents know what we stand for, what we strive to do. 

45:58 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, was it hard finding those property managers for this asset class? Because I know there's property managers everywhere, but some property managers only do commercial, some property managers only do residential. Is it like an isolated property manager for mobile homes? Are you finding that the property managers can kind of assimilate in? 

46:20 - Frank (Guest)
They can't quite frankly, they can't. 

46:22
So our first deal that we did, where we raised outside funds, we had like seven people who had done business with for a long time that participated with us. We hired a property manager to do just that Top rated team in town. Blah, blah, blah. We went in there, we did this but they weren't used to MH and within six months they fired us Right, because I had expectations of where things should be and I'm like you know, I'm talking with their point person and going over the data and looking at where you know where we expected to be and where they were like this. You know they just I guess they thought I was. I couldn't believe somebody thought I was too much right but somebody thought I was too much process. 

47:09
So we handle everything in house. This is a very niche space and you have to have people who understand the nuances of the space. So we try to take the approach of hiring slow, firing fast. So you find somebody you want to make sure they're the right fit. So when they come on board, you come on board. You kind of give them a trial period. If it doesn't work, I'd rather like, hey, this is not for you, this is not for us, we have different expectations. Let's go with us since the beginning and we've been able to move them around and they've been happy to work with a, you know, an organization that grows with them, like we're giving them, you know, a chance to advance and, quite frankly, we've advanced because of their work right. 

47:58 - Marcus (Host)
So it's a symbiotic relationship that way yeah, not surprised by that answer that can't convert over, because even me, who's a proponent for adus and for tiny home communities, I wouldn't even know where to start with managing a mobile home park, the nuances that are involved. There would be something that there's a learning curve to get there. 

48:20 - Frank (Guest)
Yeah, it's like anything else. So you know it's a specific core competency that you need to have. It's your clientele or, you know, have certain needs and you got to address it that way and you know that's why you become expert in what you've done. And just, there's not a whole lot of managers that stayed focused solely on MH. And if you're not running, like you know, one of those huge communities in Florida, 55 and older, you know it's tough to find quality management in the MH space. And I think that one of the key advantages we have is that we're vertically integrated. And I think that you know, for any operator or looking at somebody who's going to be, you know you're going to work with a sponsor and see if they're vertically integrated on that. I think that's a that's a key component. 

49:08 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah and that and it's cool that you brought up the 55 and older community, because you'll see those in every municipality that you're in in the US those don't get that negative connotation as mobile homes do, and maybe it's because they look like an apartment building, but they basically do the same thing they're renting out the room. I mean you can't really sell a room, but like a condo, but you're renting out the room. You're trying to create a community of like-minded people in one little area, which is what we're trying to do with mobile home parks too. It just doesn't. It's harder to get people's mindset to shift over to the positive frame of what this can offer. They're still stuck in the 80s, 70s days of mobile home parks and that's like the uphill battle that I'm sure you're finding with what you're doing. 

49:57 - Frank (Guest)
Well, I think a lot of it is. We've, as an industry, we have to do a better job of controlling the narrative of what we're doing and why we're doing it and how we are in the space. So that's part of you know, for a lot of years, mark, you know we did everything under the radar. You know we built out our portfolio. We had nothing to do on social media. We weren't telling the story, we weren't talking about our wins, we weren't talking about our deals. That we did, you know. We did nothing. But, quite frankly, we realized that by not sharing the story or telling the story, we're really doing a disservice, because there's a narrative out there that you're explaining quite correctly and that's not really what's really happening and that's not why we're in this space and that's what we've got to get out to people like, hey, this is a great housing option. Out to people like, hey, this is a great housing option, you know, adu is a great repurposing office buildings or something we've got to like I'm, I'm one of those guys to say yes, yes, yes, yes. There's good in all of this. Right, because this is not like a, you know, for this challenge that we're facing as a nation. Right this is for. 

51:03
There's not one answer. That's the catch-all. That's going to be the answer for everything. There's just not one. It's too vast. I mean, I'm sure you've seen the studies. There's anywhere between four and six million homes that were short, right? So there's no silver bullet that's going to answer this question. We have to be open to all of it, right? And so if you're running ADUs in a clean, professional way, where it can work inside a community and it can add to the fabric, that's fantastic. Let's figure out what's working. Let's figure out how to make it better. Same thing with mobile home parks. How do we turn those mobile home parks into manufactured housing communities? How do we create that option for people to do that? Because the problem's not going to go away just by building more multifamily apartments where everything's luxury and every apartment is $2,000 a month, which boggles my mind. 

51:55
Right, that's still a lot of money when the median income in this country doesn't match up to where the median the price of a new apartment you're building. It just doesn't work. The DTI how are you getting people to get ahead? And so you have to look at all these different options. 

52:12 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, and it's kind of like a two-headed monster. You got to change the narrative and get the buyers to understand what they're buying. It's not a trailer park that you think, you know. It's a community-based environment. And then you also need to do the municipality, because the municipality understands that there is an affordability crisis. And then you bring an option like ADUs or mobile homes or small home communities, and they always go back to no, because municipalities answers always no. 

52:42
And I got to talk to my municipality a couple weeks ago about ADUs and their big no was governance. How would we govern that that property owner is going to manage it correctly? Because this could get out of hand quickly. It could turn into that bad connotation of mobile home parks that they got to. So if a homeowner has a house and they want to rent out the top unit of their garage, how do we know that that homeowner is still living there and how do we know it's not like just two rentals? But then the opposite side of the coin is like well, that adu in that house is right next to a duplex. So what's the difference? Because they're not attached, it's a separate thing. Um, so there's a lot of like governing things that they don't like because it's harder to govern. But if you shut down every idea because you can't govern it, we're not going to go anywhere, and plus there's a loophole in literally everything. 

53:41 - Frank (Guest)
You're never going to stop bad actors, right? Someone wants to be a bad actor. They're going to be a bad actor, right. And so you, you figure out a way to make it work with um, with the good actors, because you're always going to find the bad in everything, I don't care what it is right. Yeah, so to your point. If, if the adus and you have to have somebody who lives there to do that, to create an accessory door, then that's what you need to do. And if you make the penalty bad enough that if someone does get caught doing the wrong way, that that, hey, it's not financially viable, right, it just doesn't make sense. So there is a way. 

54:19
But to your point, you just got to come down and come up with creative solutions to address this issue, and if you can fit those ADUs in there, I mean, the first answer can't be no, it should be. What does success look like? So, if we did this, what does it look like and what do we want to achieve? And if we can address some of these issues from that approach, I think we could probably find some better solutions to a challenge. Like I said, we go back to the beginning. Better solution to a challenge. Like I said, we go back to the beginning. Everybody's facing this. Every family is, or 99.9 of the families out there are facing this challenge like I. Might be okay, but how are my children going to afford to buy a home? Like? 

55:04
what are they going to do and how do we, how do we get it to a point where that's possible, right? Yeah, I, yeah, I think that's a very real question that we have to answer. 

55:14 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, and I think the more and more people talk about it and more and more people share their stories of the successes of it, just like you do with the YouTube film. I don't want to call it the wrong thing, was it? What was it? Rehab, mobile Homes, I know? 

55:31 - Dan (Co-host)
Trailer Park Turnaround. Trailer park turnaround. 

55:39 - Marcus (Host)
Trailer park turnaround. I like that name way better than my name. So with that, with that message getting out, that's going to help the case of those things moving in that direction, which is super cool, and we will attach that to the show notes. If you're listening to the show, watch it. I think that's like a big, big step forward in getting that message out. 

55:56 - Frank (Guest)
I appreciate that. You know it's a lot, like I said, it's a lot of work putting that out there, but we looked at it as there is a narrative, you know, of what these communities are, but not where certain people you know where you're looking to take them and how this addresses the need and how we can help, you know, turn these communities around, which is just, it's just a compelling story. And then I think, when, when you see what's out there and the people and the impact that it can have, you know, we, you know we've been doing this for a number of years and that to me is like impact capitalism, where you could go in there, there's an economic benefit, you're creating great returns for your stakeholders but at the same token, you're really having an impact on the people you serve. You're truly creating value for them, you're truly changing their experience in that community or bringing people and you're changing the narrative in that community as a whole, and that's that's really on. 

56:57 - Marcus (Host)
That's on the side of the table that we want to be on doesn't call for it or they don't live in the area to have one accessible, or they've got a big family that I don't know wouldn't feasible fit them, whatever their, their, little. I guess reason would be not do it. As long as you can mentally understand the benefit of this, it would be good to push for it Because, like, if I'm not going to live in an ADU or live in an HOA neighborhood, I'm not going to go out and push for the abolishment of all HOAs because I don't like them. They serve a purpose and people like them. So, because mobile home parks are under attack and they're a I mean they're a, they're a lowering, they're like an endangered aspect of real estate that I think we need to preserve. So if those people that aren't in it jump on board with the benefit of it, I like it. 

58:00 - Frank (Guest)
I think we're an endangered species. 

58:03 - Marcus (Host)
You're an endangered it is because you can't make any more. All you can do is make the ones that you have better all you can do is make the ones that you have better. 

58:15 - Frank (Guest)
I, I listen, I. That's the big, that's one of the big issues. That that this industry is facing is, quite frankly, we, they're not making enough communities and over the last two years we started to see a little bit more development happen that way. But that trend has to continue because I can. I can have a brand new three bedroom, two bath home delivered for an end user for $60,000,. Right, you cannot compete with, you know, a stick built home cannot compete with that traditional. So this is not for everyone. Right, this is entry-level housing. But I'll tell you what if you could get a brand new home for 60, 65,000, $70,000, you're well ahead of the game, because that's really where our parents or grandparents were buying their first home, not at 525 or $550,000. So that $60,000, $70,000 home serves a market and we have to be able to provide that to to the consumer as at least an option. 

59:14 - Dan (Co-host)
It's just got to be an option. 

59:15 - Frank (Guest)
It doesn't have to be the solution, but it has to be an option and and we could put out some really great product at that point and there's some really great manufacturers now and you have an opportunity to walk into some of these home markets. You can see it's like. It's like you walk inside the homes and you feel like you're in a traditional stick built home right. There's very little differentiation, other than this home was built in a factory. 

59:39 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, no, it's cool. I, I mean, I, I think highly of what you're doing. I like to hear the success that you've had with it. Um man, keep pushing for it, because I understand the value of it and I hope that more people jump on board and see that value, just like you're saying, as an option. May not be your solution, but it is a good option. 

01:00:01 - Frank (Guest)
I appreciate you saying that and that's why we're doing what we're doing and hopefully more people come around to that vantage point and listen when you're doing a great job here. I know you're getting the message out on all things real estate, but yeah, this is definitely an option people should consider as an asset class. I mean, if you're looking to invest in real estate, you know this is affordable housing and it's. You know it's such a need and by providing this is it's, you know, it's been a great ride for us I'll put it that way and we're looking to continue to build a platform. 

01:00:33 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, and I know who to call now when I get a lead on a mobile home park, because I know it's in my future somewhere, I don't know when, but, man, it's been in my mind for years now. 

01:00:44 - Frank (Guest)
Well, listen, I'd love for you to give me a call on that. Maybe definitely want to go to wisconsin in the spring or summer, I don't know if I'm. You know, I don't know if I'm in for a december lambeau field, you know, 20 degrees below zero wind chill that I might leave to you, um oh I won't even take that yeah, yeah, but I was born here, but mentally I was born in the south. 

01:01:07 - Marcus (Host)
I if it if it's under 60 degrees like I'm, I'm an inside cat. 

01:01:13 - Dan (Co-host)
My season tickets. I think we're going to the September 15th game. I think it's against Indianapolis, maybe Okay. 

01:01:21 - Marcus (Host)
I'll be at some fairly good weather in September. Yeah, but yeah if you're coming to Wisconsin, come in the summer, one of the three good months we have here for weather. 

01:01:30 - Frank (Guest)
Okay, very good, very nice. 

01:01:38 - Marcus (Host)
Awesome. Well, thanks for giving us some time. We will attach that in there. If our listeners or investors want to get ahold of you, what's the best way for them to contact you? 

01:01:42 - Frank (Guest)
Best way to contact us. They can go to the mhpexchangecom and they could send us some contact there. There's a platform that we built out for all things mobile home park related. That's the MHP exchangecom. You can contact me directly from that site or you could watch us at a trailer park turnaround. That's our YouTube series and you could find that out on YouTube. Just put in trailer park turnaround. I'm sure one of our videos will pop up. 

01:02:13 - Marcus (Host)
That's awesome. Yeah, keep pushing. I like it. That's awesome. It's an awesome subsector real estate and I'm glad it's going well. 

01:02:21 - Frank (Guest)
Thank you very much, man, I really appreciate that. 

01:02:23 - Marcus (Host)
We'll talk soon. Enjoy your weekend. 

01:02:26 - Frank (Guest)
You too, my friend. 

01:02:27 - Marcus (Host)
See ya. That's cool. I want to get into mobile home parks so quick Do you have to go. Sorry. 

01:02:37 - Frank (Guest)
No, no, no, I'm good, I'm good. 

01:02:41 - Marcus (Host)
And every time I drive past or I see like a big plot of land, like one, I hope that we could still build mobile home parks. But I'm always thinking like, all right, we can't do mobile home parks. But I'm always thinking like, all right, we can't do mobile home parks. But if we call it a tiny home community, can we put up some of these like smaller houses in little plots and then you make like a co-op, like a garden in the middle where they can all tend to that kind of thing do they give you a hard time with park model homes. 

01:03:06 - Frank (Guest)
I mean that's that's. Yeah, I mean they do. I say I've seen some communities that they don't want mobile homes. But you tell them it's a park model, they're like oh, that's great, it's the same thing. It just doesn't make sense. 

01:03:16 - Marcus (Host)
Interesting. 

01:03:17 - Frank (Guest)
Yeah, yeah. So it just depends on the community. But if your community has a, has a, just adjust the verbiage right Adjust the yeah. 

01:03:27 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah. 

01:03:28 - Dan (Co-host)
I had two questions. Have you ever come across any deals that you're scouting where the mobile home owners all I guess throw into a pot and buy the park and manage it themselves? 

01:03:48 - Frank (Guest)
So there is a push in certain community, in certain states, to give tenants first right of refusal and there's, like a couple companies that try to put these, these homeowners, together to do it. Here's the challenge, right, with that. Um, so the challenge with that is, you know, sometimes the price, like so that you're trying to say, well, somebody else is going to come in, they're going to raise a lot of rents. Okay, let's just say that, that that may or may not happen, right. But once you go for a loan on the property, now everybody else is tied to that anyway and you're going to have to see that increase in lot rents anyway. 

01:04:32
And what I've just and cause this has been more of a recent thing. You're starting to see some of those communities that became co-ops. They're just not being well run anyway. So now they have a problem with it's not an owner, that's that's a bad, that's the bad owner, it's the community. That's a bad owner, right. So now they're negatively impacting their value because, hey, you're on a board. I don't want to pay for a special assessment to fix the road. It's not in front of my and you have that. So you need a lot of different elements for that to work well. Listen, I'm not saying it's a bad option if the owners can get around and do that, but in certain markets I mean, think about you're dealing in affordable housing, right, and so you might be dealing in a market where they don't want to be on the hook for a $2 million loan, right that's a lot of money. 

01:05:24
And they might not be able to make the type of capital improvements without doing a special, and not everybody's going to pay at the same time. So so it's, it's a catch-22, I mean, and I think part of the issue that you have with that, dan, is that, uh, you know, there are some bad operators that came into the space, um, and we've got to just figure out a way to flush them out, right, you know and know, and the best way you could do it is that residents just move, yeah. 

01:05:54 - Marcus (Host)
But you'll get that with apartment complexes. If it's a D class apartment complex, you come in, you add security, you update units, you start charging more rent. You eventually start phasing out the people that aren't on board anymore and they find somewhere else to go start phasing out the people that aren't on board anymore and they find somewhere else to go. 

01:06:12 - Frank (Guest)
I think the the yes, but the the issue I guess for the political hotbed issue is that if you own your home right in a mobile, if you move in an apartment like that apartment is supposed to be transitory right, supposed to supposed to move out yeah but if, if you your home and now I raise lot rent and you're for you to move, that home is going to cost you 12 to $15,000 and you don because you don't have $15,000 to move your home somewhere else and that home is the biggest asset you have. 

01:06:55
So it's like a lose-lose situation, right, where if you're an apartment, you can say, all right, you raised my rent from 600 to 900. I'm going to go find another apartment, I'm going to put a security deposit, I'm not going to pay, you know, like it's less of a financial burden for you. And that's where the bad operators in the space are kind of creating a bad narrative. And we've had a couple of big bad operators come in recently and they would take lot rents from 200 to 600, make no improvements and people end up losing their homes, right, and that's then that you don't want to see, right, not that you don't want to get rents to market, but you gotta, you know, you gotta understand that's a payment shock yeah, and not everybody has dance money, but I can take that type of increase. 

01:07:39
You know like you know nothing yeah, yeah, that is. 

01:07:44 - Marcus (Host)
I mean, that's a unique nuance to it. 

01:07:48 - Frank (Guest)
Yeah, I didn't really think about that side of it, yeah so, but if you come across anything and you want to run by me just to see you know thoughts, if you're looking to do it, I'm happy to take a look at it. Um, you know, whatever, whatever the case may be, you know, on the right if you, you know if you're looking to buy it for yourself. 

01:08:05 - Marcus (Host)
So yeah, there's a few out in the county west of here that I've had my eye on, just because they're busy, they look run down and they're usually a mom and pop and they got to retire sometime. 

01:08:18 - Frank (Guest)
Yeah. 

01:08:19 - Marcus (Host)
So it'd be cool to see if they'd be interested in, like a land contract type deal with a balloon in five years or something, cause I'd have to network to try and get some financing, cause that's the other big thing is finding people that would finance a trailer park or a mobile home park that doesn't fit into their box. 

01:08:39 - Frank (Guest)
So the one thing I found that is, if the deal is good enough, the capital finds its way to it. Yeah, you have a deal that makes sense economically and you have a business plan that you know you can execute on. Capital finds its way to it. I would I would make that that's a concern, but I would I would put that to the back make sure the economics work right and make sure this is right. Make sure you got the variables you know pegged out and you know what you can control and what you can impact. And if you can see that you can see a return, capital will find its way right. Yeah, every single time, I don't care where you are, it's industrial, it's a flip, it's this, it's the numbers work. 

01:09:20 - Dan (Co-host)
Somebody with capital will write a check that would be a good option for that one. I just sent you that one I just sent you that those, those four a-frame houses that are on. 

01:09:30 - Marcus (Host)
I wrote that down in the middle of the show. There was a. There's a property that's just north of here that has like four little homes on it. 

01:09:38 - Dan (Co-host)
A-frame homes two, two bedroom, one and a half baths, All four on the same lot, eight and a half acres. 

01:09:46 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, I wonder if I pull one of those properties from jefferson county and bring it to you can kind of walk me through, because I've never underwritten or or analyzed a mobile home park, sure, sure just let me have it and then you can, well, we'll definitely, we'll walk through it, we'll go through it, and you see, yeah, you know what kind of numbers they're looking for, what numbers would work. 

01:10:07 - Frank (Guest)
And then you, you make your offer. You know offer, you know accordingly. 

01:10:10 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, no, that'd be fun. Okay, all right, I'm adding that to our list, dan. 

01:10:16 - Frank (Guest)
Listen, I appreciate it. Thank you for the time. Like I said, and let's stay in contact. If you have any questions, just send me an email, give me a call. I mean you have my office number, give me a call. I'm happy to sit down and discuss any deal with you, just to to sit down and discuss any deal with you, just to to go through it. I love the exercise. Anyway, I'm always looking at different opportunities. 

01:10:33 - Marcus (Host)
That's awesome. I appreciate that. Thank you and thanks for giving us the time. I appreciate all the knowledge that you're dropping on this one Cause it's a big one. 

01:10:40 - Frank (Guest)
I appreciate that. Thank you, gentlemen. 

01:10:43 - Marcus (Host)
Have a good weekend you too.