The Art of Successful Rent-to-Own Real Estate with James Brown

When real estate maestro James Brown pivoted from graphic design to the high-stakes game of property investment, he unlocked a world of opportunity in the rent-to-own market. Join us as James, from Real Home Solutions and EXP, and I unpack the layers of this approach, offering a lifeline to many in the face of rising housing prices. Through stories from our own journeys, we provide a roadmap for potential homeowners and investors, highlighting the tools and networking needed to navigate these waters successfully.

As we explore the rent-to-own landscape, we tackle the elephant in the room: the myths that often cloud the understanding of these transactions. You'll gain clarity on rent credits, option consideration money, and the importance of credit repair services, shattering misconceptions and laying out the nuts and bolts of how these deals can work to a tenant's advantage. Moreover, we discuss the integration of first-time homebuyer programs and how they can be a game-changer for those standing on the threshold of homeownership.

The episode doesn't shy away from the nitty-gritty of managing rental properties and the creative twists one can employ in investment strategies. From navigating long-distance property management to understanding the nuances of state laws and international building practices, there's an abundance of insights. We also dive into the real-world challenges and solutions encountered in our professional experiences, providing valuable lessons for anyone looking to make their mark in the endlessly evolving domain of real estate.

Linktree

James Website

Chapter Timestamps

(00:00) - Rent to Own Real Estate Strategies

(07:33) - Navigating Rent to Own Real Estate

(21:25) - Rent to Own Real Estate Misconceptions

(34:14) - Real Estate Strategies and Challenges

(44:21) - Real Estate and Legal Discussion

(48:02) - Creative Real Estate Investing Strategies

(55:59) - Real Estate Challenges and Solutions

(01:05:36) - RV Driving in Denver Mountains

Highlight Timestamps

(07:06 - 08:07) Rent to Own Investment (61 Seconds)

(12:33 - 13:31) Switching Rental Software to Rent Ready (59 Seconds)

(18:44 - 19:58) Real Estate Agent Discusses Investment Options (74 Seconds)

(22:40 - 23:50) Rent to Own Contract Education (70 Seconds)

(25:45 - 26:41) Understanding Rent to Own Properties (55 Seconds)

(34:14 - 36:17) Finding Buyer Leads Through Networking (123 Seconds)

(42:40 - 44:20) Challenges of Rent-to-Own Real Estate (100 Seconds)

(45:25 - 46:44) Restrictive Lease Terms in Texas (79 Seconds)

(54:32 - 55:59) Real Estate Investing and Helping Others (87 Seconds)

(57:43 - 58:40) Challenges of Rural Real Estate (57 Seconds)

Rent-to-Own, Real Estate, Strategies, High-Priced Markets, Graphics, Property, Resources, Networking, Support System, Success, Demystifying, Mechanics, Rent Credits, Option Consideration Money, Credit Repair, First-Time Homebuyer Programs, Multifaceted Challenges, Managing Rental Properties, Long-Distance Management, State Laws, Creative Routes, Industry, Lease Options, Alternative Financing, Legal Lessons, Obstacles, RV Rides, Denver Mountains, Mobile Home Parks, Municipal Regulations, Niche Market, Modular Homes, Manufactured Homes, Stick-Built Property, Septic Systems, Water Testing, Unmerged Parcels, Urban Areas, Government Loans, VA, FHA, Mobile Home Parks, Niche Market, Mobile Home Parks, Municipal Regulations, RV Adventure, Weather

Transcript

Marcus: 0:00

All right, welcome back. Season four, episode two. We've got James Brown from.

Dan: 0:12

Real Home Solutions.

Marcus: 0:13

Real Home Solutions in EXP. He's an agent and he does rent to own. If you are a listener and you are looking to buy a house or you're a tenant and you're renting, I would just express look into rent to own. I know that it's not the nice little like I'm going to go with my agent and look at a house and then I'm going to go look at this one. It's a little bit different of a path but it is wildly effective, especially in this market when prices are rising up. It's a nice little way to get in In the show we talk about how you can beat some competition in this. I know it's a little bit different of a philosophy but if you do it correctly and you find somebody like James who can walk you through and who has done deals like this, it can sometimes go smoother than a typical home purchase. Lots of praise for him. He's got years of knowledge. Before I explain it, I'm just going to bring him in. Let's bring James on. Awesome James, thanks for being here. Thanks for giving us the time on a. I don't know what it is in Denver, but here it is gloomy, gray and about terrain. Hopefully you're getting some better weather, but thanks for being here, thanks for giving us the time.

James: 1:34

Right on, right on.

Marcus: 1:36

Awesome. In typical fashion, we always start out with a little background on you, so our listeners can get a feel of where you come from. The one thing that I've noticed within the real estate world is people come from all sorts of backgrounds, which I think is amazing. So tell us a little bit about you. Where did you come from? How'd you get to one owning your own company and being a successful agent at EXP?

James: 2:01

Yeah, there's a lot there Talking about weather. I get snowing here right now. I live in Colorado. I wonder I love snow. I grew up in Alaska, oh really. Yeah, I moved to Colorado for college, to first college and for snowboarding. I was competing back then, just loved it. So in school I actually started in business and then switched to graphic design and that was my career for 25 years. But it didn't. It wasn't getting me where I wanted to and I kind of got burned out on it, even though I love the creativity. And that led into real estate. I was like I'm not getting where I want. I want to buy some rentals and get that going. And I went down the rabbit hole of real estate trying to figure out which direction to go because, like most people, they just think, oh, I'm going to go buy a single family home.

Dan: 2:59

Yep.

James: 3:00

Turn that into a rental and then you realize, holy smokes, there's so much more out there.

Marcus: 3:05

Yes, yeah, and that was. It's eye-opening when you get into it, the little sub-sex of real estate you can get into, which is super cool because not a lot of people know about rent to own. So, coming off of graphic design, what was your first step in real estate? Do you remember that initial like all right, I'm interested in it. Maybe you read some books or you like take an online guru class that kind of gets you the intro video. What was your first? Like all right, I'm getting my toe wet in real estate.

James: 3:37

Yeah Well, my dad told me years ago back, I think, when I was in college he's like go buy a duplex and rent out one side Great advice. I didn't do that, but I did buy a house with my brother and started building equity. So that was kind of the start. But then it took me years to get into actual investing. So it was, let's say, seven years ago or something. I was on a road trip with a friend and he's like hey, check out Bigger Pockets, which anybody in this business knows. It's an online resource community and they have books and videos and all this stuff. So I just I started following the podcast at that point. Love those guys and they're based here in Denver, which is really cool. I've got to meet a lot of the people that run it. So that was kind of how that started. And then I just started going to real estate investing association groups in town, reading books, more podcasts, and I joined a multifamily mastermind group, went to weekly meetups on creative financing, just all of it.

Marcus: 4:57

And that's the cool part about it is you can get in. The barrier to entry into real estate is not very high. You can get knowledge without paying for a single thing. I remember me and Dan were working outside sales and on my travels while I was driving, because maybe we were driving like I don't know three hours a day and I was like I could get at least two podcasts in and that's not being like aggressive easily three if they're shorter, and I would listen to like the pilot all the way through, even if it was irrelevant because I didn't know what I wanted to get into. I knew real estate was like the end game, but where you can flip, you can rent, like you have a rent to own their subject, to like all the little niches that you can do and there's overlap on some, but like, as you get more involved in these bigger pockets or these forums or their mastermind, everybody wants to network and help other people out. It's not like they try to keep you out of this because you're going to take their business. There's enough business to go around. Yeah, there has been. The market's been a little rougher, especially in Denver, with prices getting high, but what markets are you guys in? We are in Wisconsin, southeastern Wisconsin, Okay cool, so I'm in between Milwaukee and Madison, if you're familiar with there, and then Dan is pretty much in between Milwaukee and Chicago, gotcha, yeah. Yeah, so we didn't get as much snow as you, but our climate is kind of the same. We don't have mountains, no mountain whatsoever. So if you, you would have been wrong if you picked Wisconsin for snowboarding. That is the fact. Yeah, so you started listening to bigger pockets podcast. Did you get to any BP cons before they moved it out of Denver? Because I believe they started doing in Brighton Denver and now they're in Lord. I think they usually host them.

James: 6:53

Yeah, yeah, I went to everyone that they put on here before it was even called BP con. Yeah, and I haven't been to one of the out of state ones yet, but sounds like that's a big deal. So you guys have been.

Marcus: 7:06

No, we have not been to yet, but I always try to listen to the shows before and after because they're usually the most like energetic and, I'd say, inspired at that point. So the shows before and after are always cool to catch up on because they take the little nuggets of who they talked to or speakers that they had. So there's a lot of good knowledge in that one.

James: 7:26

Yeah, cool, I have to check that out.

Marcus: 7:29

Yeah, it's fun, all right. So we got bigger pockets. We've got forums. You're going to meetups, do you? Was there like an influential person that you talked to or a conversation that led you into rent to own? Because it's on the macro level. There's not a lot of people that focus right in on the rent to own, but it's such a good service to add to those people that want to buy. I'll call them like fringe buyers, like it's a very, very awesome tool to use. So what led you into you? Knowing the direction of rent to own was going to be your path.

James: 8:06

Yeah. So one of the the meetups that I went to, I met Toby Hanson. He's my now my business partner. We got to chat and he's like, hey, let's, let's get together another time, just the two of us, and started chatting. We kind of had similar backgrounds. We're both approaching 50 years old, gone man. We got to do something different and quick and be effective. And he's he's really good at researching different investing models and things. And he was the one that discovered Ron LeGrand, who is like an OG guy. He does a lot of different things but his main focus has been lease options or rent to own. So we joined his mastermind program, there's coaching program, did that for a while and like the fact that we could help people that are we call them like penalty box buyers you know, people that just they can't buy a house but they want to, right. But we didn't really get much traction with with what he teaches. Personally my fault maybe, just didn't know how to explain it, but he's going directly to to sellers that have listed their properties like for sale by owners, okay, trying to convince them to sell to us on terms like not sell immediately and get cashed out. That's a really tough sell and really it comes down to numbers. Most people just need their money. They need to cash out and take that and go buy it at the next house. Right, you can give you that, those terms. And then you got to overcome trust issues. They're like who is this guy calling me out of the blue with this weird thing? I've never heard of this deal that he's trying to work. So then we, we ran across our mentor, jesse. He's in Minnesota and he, he taught us to just go buy houses with investors that can get a loan or pay cash. So that's what we do, we, we, we do that and we've we've done it two ways. We either have the buyer first and then go let them pick out a house and go go buy that house, or we buy a house and then go find the buyers. So it's either ways.

Dan: 10:40

And the buyer you're talking about. Is that the the person that's going to be taking the rent to own option at the end, or, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, the end buyer? So do you, do you also not to pave it too far away, but do you also then help them with, like credit repair services and things like that? Or do you help them like navigate that, so that they're, when that one or two or five year term comes up, you're like okay, we put them in the right place, they're set up to be able to take this over.

James: 11:06

Yeah, 100%. Okay, that's always been given a bad name, but companies and people putting people in a bad position where they can't end up buying or can't buy in time, and so we, we don't want to ever get in that position. So we really screen the buyers heavily. We work with lenders that really know the programs that they can get into and you know if there's credit issues. Ideally there's no credit issues, it's just they need more time on the job. Okay, like self employed, or maybe they're writing off too much on their taxes, not claiming enough. That's more ideal. They just need time. But if they, if they do need any kind of help, like credit repair, counseling or anything, then we give them those tools. So, yeah, great question.

Marcus: 11:58

Yeah, do you guys do the credit repair in-house or is this like a service that you, hey buyer, I know you're renting, we got our lease all done. You're in the house. We plan to get credit repair going. Contact John, he's going to help you do all that stuff.

James: 12:12

Yeah yeah, credit is complex. I'm not an expert in that. I'd rather them just work with somebody that does that day in and day out with lots of clients. And if they don't, if it's not really damaged, you know, usually our lender that we pair them up with can give them some guidance too.

Marcus: 12:33

Yeah, so we we just switched our rental software. We were working with the company and now I don't know why it took me this long, but bigger pockets has a deal with rent ready. So we switched over to rent ready. It was significantly cheaper. Functionality is a little bit different, but the one feature that they have on there is you can you can make your rent payments count towards your credit, so as you pay your rent you can sign up. I think it's like five hours a month or something like that, but at least that's going into positive credit history, which I thought was a really neat feature that all of our tenants like if you want to do that, sign up.

James: 13:14

Yeah, yeah, that's cool. I couldn't get rent ready to work. I was like, hey, I'm a pro member, I can get rent ready. I went back and forth for two months trying to get them to get a tour and then finally they were like, oh, we can't connect to your Chase Bank, like Chase is one of the biggest banks. Like hey, you connect?

Dan: 13:32

I was so frustrated because it's a cool software we had issued in the beginning, but it was more on rent ready side, like we have like the owner account and then we also have like I don't call it admin or admin or manager account, or like some of the stuff was blurred, so like not actually blurred, but like I could have access and see certain things that I either shouldn't be seeing or I couldn't see things, and it was just like it was weird how you sign into it too, like it was. But we got that all figured out, and I think the only thing that it's missing is like a communication feature between tenants and the property management, so like if a tenant says, hey, I got this issue, they have to contact outside of the rent ready app to let us know what's going on.

Marcus: 14:19

So we pretty much eliminated all my texts from tenants and it was all going through the app. But then we switched and now I'm getting hey, I can't figure out how to put in a maintenance request and then they'll just give me the maintenance quest over text. So we got to figure out some kinks on that one. But we work with JPMorgan, which is a Chase product, and we got to link right away and usually JPMorgan is like a frustrating one because they don't link to anything. So that's strange, I, that's weird. Yeah Well, I'd go walk over to the bigger pockets office and tell them to Figure it out. Help you out.

James: 14:57

Yeah, there you go.

Marcus: 14:58

Only a couple of blocks away. Right exactly Did you? Oh, to go back before about the rent to own yeah, did you start doing this on your own before you were an agent, or were you an agent first, like?

James: 15:13

I did. Yeah, yeah, jesse, he's like you should get licensed For many, many reasons, and so that was. That was really good Worth going through all that.

Marcus: 15:24

Yeah, and we've had another agent on EXP and on one of our shows. After the show he had taken us through the virtual office and he'd walk up to the desk and take a ticket so he could sit down with his manager and they sit down and have like a virtual coffee meeting.

James: 15:39

Yeah, it was kind of hokey.

Marcus: 15:41

It was mild.

James: 15:42

But it's super effective, like I go in there all the time to ask questions.

Marcus: 15:47

Yeah.

James: 15:47

Yeah, and we meet in person too, and locally.

Marcus: 15:50

Yeah, cause the offices aren't too far usually.

James: 15:55

Well, we don't even have offices. I mean, we've got one like where mail goes, but other than that we just do events out around town.

Marcus: 16:03

Yeah, was I mistaken? Where, like your manager is somewhat local to you, I think his was in like Chicago or something.

James: 16:10

Yeah, we've actually got three brokers in Colorado. Okay, yeah, one, you know, the designated managing broker, the main one, but yeah, team of three, cause we've grown and one couldn't handle it, you know. So we've got a couple of thousand in Colorado.

Dan: 16:27

Yeah.

James: 16:28

Yeah, and maintaining through this tough time for agents too, like most brokers are just losing people like Tracy, but we're maintaining, so it's good.

Marcus: 16:39

And there's a big lawsuits going through I think they're affecting Colorado and Wisconsin with buyer agency commissions.

James: 16:51

Oh yeah.

Marcus: 16:52

Have you read anything?

James: 16:54

on that one. Oh yeah, yeah, we talk about it all the time.

Marcus: 16:56

So that's, that is big. And now there's are you guys, agents. Yeah, I'm an agent.

James: 17:02

Yeah, good.

Marcus: 17:04

And then we've got a line showing going on in Wisconsin I don't know if that reached Colorado yet, but showing time which is owned by Zillow. So I guess Zillow is suing the MLS, because what did they call it? Antitrust? Yeah, but more other. And then the MLS came up with their own a line showing and they're angry.

James: 17:27

Yeah, we've got broker bay here and now. Now both of them are options you can click either, Cause they're like oh shit, that state's getting sued, so we better make it, make both available.

Marcus: 17:40

Yeah, I'm always trying to get updates on those to see where it's headed, cause the buyer agency commission one is is worrisome cause they're going after some bigger brokers. So we'll see. We'll see what happens with those yeah, yeah, going in. I'm not going to make you pick between your two kids, your agent, and your, your company, but where do you find yourself now that you're how many years into to both, would you say estimate?

James: 18:13

Well, we started real-time solutions in 2019.

Marcus: 18:16

Okay. So now that you're a few years into both, do you find yourself as a very symbiotic connection between the two, where in your mind you're just going out to get deals done and meet people in network. Or do you specifically like, all right, this is an agent or this is a mission for the company, Like is there so much crossover? Or do you kind of go two different coins or two different pieces of the whole thing?

James: 18:44

It is kind of separate, you know, but some some of my retail buyers and sellers may also want to invest in real estate. I well, I think probably everyone does. They want to make money, they want to get rich and wealthy and quit their jobs, but maybe they can't now, so at least I can just help them with the regular buying and selling of their personal home.

Marcus: 19:09

Yeah, and do you bring that up on your initial phone call or is that like just through your, your talking, your walking through houses they mentioned like I don't know, maybe this isn't the house and you bring up like oh, have you ever heard of rent to own? And like try to get them into, like I guess educating them on the option that that is a possibility.

James: 19:29

Yeah, yeah, that comes up Cause that's, that's in my brain all the time. So if, if, those are to kind of help educate, and that's most of what I do is educate people on whatever we're doing, you know yeah.

Marcus: 19:44

Cause I'm sure not a lot of buyers that go on Zillow or request to showing even think that rent to own is in their, their wheelhouse or an option for them. So I'm sure education is huge.

James: 19:57

It's huge. Yeah, actually I teach a Dora C class continuing education class for agents, cause most agents don't have any idea, or lenders Like. I teach it to lenders too. Yeah, there's a lot of misconceptions and some real concerns. You know, like I said, rent to own has been given a bad name when people aren't set up properly, you know. So that's a great class. Everybody that comes out of that it's like oh my God, thank you. Like I had no idea. You know Now they understand how it all works, what to look for, how to do it right, best practices, and how the agents and lenders can also make money where normally it would just be a dead deal. Yeah, people can't get qualified. So they're like oh wow, I can. Like the lenders, they can get a loan in the pipeline down the road with somebody that lives in the house. They don't just kind of want to buy a house, they have to buy a house. Yeah, and then, you know, our investors get loans. They can get a loan for an investor right away with well-qualified buyers. So lenders love it, and agents too.

Dan: 21:07

You get long-term tenants. You get long-term tenants. They're gonna take care of the property. You're not gonna have to worry about them trash in a place with a turnover, repair costs and things like that. They're invested in the situation, so yeah, you get it.

James: 21:23

That's awesome yeah.

Marcus: 21:25

As you go through this, what are, or what's the top or what are a couple myths that you want to bust right now, like the common misconception that you like either repeatedly hear from clients or that you've heard through a podcast of like I would do rent to own, but my sister did this and that landlord did this to him. Like, are there any ones? Like a common theme that you are constantly seeing?

James: 21:51

Yeah, well, I always get the question how much of the rent goes to buying the house? Yeah, that's, that's the biggest one. They just assume it. Some assume it all goes like no, that's not how it works. Yeah, so then I get into what rent credits are. It's an amount above whatever market rent is that's put away. That part is because we want them to have money saved up for their down payment and closing costs in the future. Yeah, unless they prepay that, which is what we prefer. Yeah, yeah, pay enough to cover that so they're not having to save up. So that's the only thing you do. I know other people will do the rent credits.

Marcus: 22:40

Yeah, I mean, I've heard on that one. I've heard like some people getting upset when, all right, you have a rent to own contract terms are three years. Three years comes up and they end up not buying and they're like I'm out and they're. They're expecting that money back.

James: 22:56

Right.

Marcus: 22:57

And that's where it's like, man, if you could have gotten ahead on day one and told them like this is how it works, and educate them fully that that's not money that's going to come back, and that's like your, that's like the escrow, like we're hoping to give that to you through the purchase, but if you cancel the contract, it doesn't, doesn't come back and yeah. That hurts me because that's just education that that shouldn't knock the rent to own side of real estate.

James: 23:24

Yeah, yeah, we're real clear. That's nonrefundable option consideration, technical terms, and that's why we want to come up with a game plan and get a lender involved and make sure they understand what what they're getting, make sure they want that house specifically to it. Yes, right, not just like I like it.

Marcus: 23:49

Yeah, yeah. And then along the way, I think that credit repair, addition to what you guys do is great, because that's honestly a nice metric to check in on is our John and Susie doing what they need to do for credit repair, or have they not done it in a year? Because that's kind of a red flag of like things aren't trending in the right direction and you can call them and say like, hey, you got to stay on pace, otherwise you're not going to make it. Yeah, yeah, that's a nice on both sides of the deal. That's an awesome feature. Yeah, yeah, definitely got to check in with them, yeah, and hope you haven't come into any situation where they haven't been doing what they're doing or they don't get back on the horse.

James: 24:30

That happens. Yeah, yeah, I kind of prod them. Yeah, you can lead a horse to water, but with another horse analogy yeah, you can only lead them there With that rent to own option?

Dan: 24:46

like, do you set them up like 12 months out Okay, so for these next 12 months don't be going to buy a car, don't be opening up a credit card and like make sure that you don't have any big purchases where it's going to take away your debt to income ratio or lower that for you to not be able to qualify for this mortgage when we're going to closing in 12 months. And then, like, I think again back to what Marcus said, that goes along with the education that has to be part of it, because if you truly want to help these people and set them up for success, you got to help them get out of their way a little bit. Like you said, you can lead them to it. But if they don't take the action and follow through but as long as you did your, you know your part and provided the information and provided the runway for them if they trip themselves up again, they're doing it to themselves. So you're seeing it up for them. They just have to either follow through and execute or you know they're going to miss out on the opportunity and probably some thousands of dollars that they were hoping or expecting. I know some of the rent owns that I've seen like they. When you explain it to them as far as, like, what part of their rent goes to cover the purchase, it has to be. After all, fees are paid like mortgage taxes, insurance and stuff on the property. When you break it down for them and they understand like, okay, out of this $1500 payment, $100 a month might be going towards your future like loan amount. But even at the end of the day, if they're there for two to five years, depending on how long it takes them, that would only be up to help cover closing costs, correct? So, like if they're first time home buyers, I hope your lenders are providing them with options, because I know there's a lot of either credit units or banks that give them first time home buyer credits or only a three or three and a half percent down payment. I think there's a lot of stuff and that might be a good niche area to explore for us. Marcus is maybe looking into the rent to own, but then also first time home buyer programs, seeing those together so that the lenders are seeing that they're making progress towards it and we're providing that option.

Marcus: 26:57

Yeah, every time I walk a tenant through one of the properties we're managing, I always talk to him like rent to own is an option. There's no deal off the table If you guys want to buy this and we can come to terms rent to own, and I always want somebody to take advantage of it. But most people are like no, I'll just do the typical rent and then I'll find something. And I'm like have you been looking for a house these days Like you are? There's so much competition. If you can get to a rent to own, that's going to solve so many things. You have time to get into it. You're living in your property. So if you want to do your DIYs, you can do that. Go for it. But also, when it comes time to purchase, it's just you getting the deal done. It's not you versus the five other buyers, where now the price is escalating more than it already is escalated, like the barrier to entry is so much easier. Yes, it's not the typical route but, man, if you're in it and you are the only buyer contending with the house that you're already in, there's no competition. This is like the best situation we can get in.

Dan: 28:00

Especially with our tenants too, because the houses are like remodeled before they move in. It's not like they have to do much DIY other than making it their own or making it a more comfortable space for them. It's like they're going into good situations and I don't know, maybe some people just like the newness of. I used to be like that with cars, get a car every two years and it's just like you just want something different. Maybe they like the competition.

Marcus: 28:25

Maybe that's what it is. There's like the competition of the offer and waiting to see if your offer wins out.

Dan: 28:34

Yeah, no, I don't think so.

James: 28:36

Another thing you have to remind them sure, rates are 7%. They're not three anymore. Yeah, as a first time home buyer, you're not stuck in a three where you're needing to sell and then you're going from a three to a seven. You're starting out fresh. It is what it is. It's a normal rate. Yeah, if you're renting, it's 100% interest. Yeah, I love that.

Marcus: 29:02

I like that one.

James: 29:03

Oh yeah.

Marcus: 29:05

I like that. Rent is 100% interest.

James: 29:08

It sure is.

Marcus: 29:08

Yeah, I'm keeping that one up here.

James: 29:10

Yeah, yeah, use that. It makes sense so yeah, so do you guys do turnkey? Is that what you're?

Marcus: 29:16

like you're fixing. That's usually what we do. So when I started I started with Mailer, so I would go on deal machine, which I heard through a person on bigger pockets, and as I'm driving around to these areas because I covered for much half of Southeast Wisconsin and Dan had covered the other half and as I'm driving through these little areas just snapping pictures and sending out mailers, and somebody called and was like yeah, I'll get rid of my property. And it was. There was mold on the dry walls and like it was an old little cabin built on a slab, so like nothing fancy at all, but for me it was $100,000. Like I can, I think this is obtainable. Like when you look at buying a 400,000 a house, a lot of pressure gets on there. But this one I was like all right, lower entry point, it's a two bedroom, super small. And as I go into like investigate the lot, I noticed that it's two lots so I can later parcel it, which is currently what we're doing. We're splitting that, building duplexes. But I've had that for I bought that in 18. It's fully paid for itself with tenants, because we went in, we ripped out all the mold in the problem areas, we cleaned it all up. There was nothing structural wrong. We've had to tune up the AC unit and the furnace. But when I changed the water heater, that's about it. Otherwise it has been like a cash cow still sitting in cash. So that's how I started. And then after that I was like, all right, what's the next one? And someone on bigger pockets was mentioning like auctions. So I'm like, okay, let's go check out a couple auctions. And I went to I think four. And then on the fifth one I was like I'm buying this house, I'm going for it. And I got like all the nerves were going. It was back like I was competing Because I played baseball and I remember my first start in college. My whole body was like shaking from nerves. And I got that at the auction. So I was like, all right, I'm onto something, because I like this feeling. This is like energizing. And that one was a basic tear down. I bought it for what the price of the land was and then rebuilt that one. But yeah, ever since then I've always been like, okay, let's find the worst house in CB area, Like I'd be fine with that, we go in, we buy it low, we've got a crew of guys, they'll go in, we'll fix it up and then we'll rent it. And then I always talk to people about rent to own, like, look at the nice house you can get in here. For me I'm still getting the mortgage paid off Like you're getting in a good house. I see this as a win-win solution, but I've yet to have anybody take me up on it and that's why it's mind blowing, and it might be because I'm not selling it correctly or saying the right things. Like those are things that you, with years and years of experience of, like focusing and niching on that, I'm sure come to it Like it's getting better and quicker, because you have all right, these are the things that have worked and these are the things that haven't worked. So, but yeah, we typically try to get it rent ready because for us it's less maintenance If we know everything's working correctly, everything is done correctly. There shouldn't be like a hey, our faucet broke or we got a leak here or the furnace went out.

James: 32:44

Yeah, yeah, that's huge.

Marcus: 32:46

So that's our security blanket with that one. But yeah, we always try to go in and fix it up. Yeah, and I listened to a podcast years I don't know who or what show you're on, but you had mentioned, with this, real home solutions, you are pretty much nationwide, so your service can go to any states, whereas EXP you got to be licensed within your state, correct?

James: 33:11

No, that's a cool thing about EXP. We can, we can do things and you know, pretty much anywhere. Yeah, licensing wise, doing referrals is real easy, so yeah, but we've got other people kind of with their own standalone companies in different markets. It's growing, it's. I think we have nine or something right now. Okay, maybe more. But if there's a state like Wisconsin, we actually have done a deal there.

Marcus: 33:42

With real home solutions.

James: 33:44

Yeah, we've got a combination with our partner in Minnesota and then forget how.

Marcus: 33:49

Oh, cause we got reciprocity with Minnesota. Oh, I believe Wisconsin does.

James: 33:54

I think we used a different agent. So, like you know, in your market we could put the puzzle pieces together. You're a licensed agent, you can make the offer on behalf of our investor and we would bring our investor, you know, you might have to buy it. So yeah, yeah, we can do it anywhere.

Dan: 34:14

We've done some in Florida, you know, like I've never even been there, this option for one of our properties right now, man, we got two that we're considering listing or we're doing a rent to own. We had it listed for rent and then, for whatever reason, we're deciding not to do that. We're going to look at selling it correct. Yeah, and that might either be a good rent to own option or finding an investor.

Marcus: 34:38

Those are the ones I want to rent to own because, to be honest, they're an hour from my house and if I'm the one that has to go and let people in because they locked themselves out or go fix a toilet or I don't want to drive an hour to get there and an hour back Like that's not my thing. It's a single family home in a really nice village, Like it's sought after. The inflation or the price points that those houses get are mind blowing to me. But people love it and that's when I'm like hey, this is a nice rent to open, rent to buy option and just waiting for somebody to take me up on it. But I just give it to you and you look for the buyer on that one.

James: 35:21

I could, it's harder, like yeah, and so here, my best leads are from lenders and agents. So building a network of lenders and agents out in the business all day long that do run across people, that's the best way, as opposed to running Facebook ads. We do that too. We go doorknock locally, but I can't do that in another market.

Dan: 35:50

So your lenders that provide you leads? Is it like, hey, we had somebody apply for a mortgage. They didn't qualify? Check these people out, see if you can help them Okay.

James: 35:58

Yeah, or they were even under contract and underwriting missed something, or they went and did something stupid, like bought a car, like you're talking, you know things like that. It's like, oh shoot, we're going to lose this house, right, so we could come in and save it. So I get those calls once in a while.

Marcus: 36:15

Yeah, and that's a good source for your buyer leads. How do you got? Because you said it either goes one of two ways you have the buyer first, you have the seller first, which in this? Yes, the points are the same, but your path or the way that you handle the deal is way different if you have the buyer or you have the seller. So buyers are through brokers and lenders. Where do you find most of your sellers? Is that the door knocking? Is that your mailers?

James: 36:46

No, so we're not actively looking for sellers because of how most need to sell cash out, so we just work with an investor that normally would just go buy a rental and deal with renters, which sucks. Now we're working with somebody that's a you know, homeowner in training and so investor like that homeowner. We'll just go buy a house that fits our model. You know, like that one you're talking about, it's in a nice neighborhood, it's not a piece of shit, yeah they both have been fully renovated, so yeah, Yep, yeah, and we don't need them fully renovated. Like some people want some meat on the bone, they want to fix it up. You know we get a lot of contractors.

Marcus: 37:30

Yep.

James: 37:30

Cash jobs. They're not hoarding enough income. They look terrible to a bank, but they're good. They make good money. Maybe they can't, you know, a bank statement loan is not going to work. So they're. They're good, but they got skills. They can go replace that roof or, you know, add an extra room or whatever they want to do to the house. They can do whatever, yeah.

Marcus: 37:54

And it's funny that the misconception of the people that rent to own can't buy their own house. Most of them are the independent contractors They've got the money, they don't have the credit history or the two years of like you're saying W2 history Yep, those people are. They've got the money. They just can't qualify in the typical box of what home buyers would do.

James: 38:16

Exactly, yeah, well, that one in Florida I'm talking about, that's a family from Honduras. They're ITIN, like they don't have a social security number. Those buyers, they could go buy a house if they had like 30 or 40% put down. The bank's like okay, we'll do that. But I mean like it might be a higher interest rate and they're like we can't buy now, they can't save up that much now. Right, yeah, so we were able to get them in a new home and give them the time.

Marcus: 38:46

So that's awesome. I was just in Honduras. The buildings down there, it's incredible.

James: 38:54

In what way?

Marcus: 38:56

There's no codes at all. You just build what you want to build. I love it as a person who would love that, it's great. But then you see it and you're like man, are these stairs going to hold? As I go up them, Like all those questions come in.

James: 39:12

That's a problem when hurricanes come through and will die because it wasn't built well Right, I know somebody that goes into these countries after that happens and gives them the blueprint Like when you rebuild this way so your buildings aren't collapsing and killing your families.

Dan: 39:31

Yeah.

Marcus: 39:33

I suppose, electrical wiring. You said oh yeah, they just pull electrical wires out, they wire, nut them and just leave them Like there's no box or covers or it's no ground the light turns on, so we're good, it's like all right, I like this. If we can take this into the US, there's going to be a lot more accidents, but man building would go so much quicker, true.

James: 39:57

Yeah, not having to wait for permits.

Marcus: 39:59

I know. Wait for the inspector to come through and approve it.

Dan: 40:02

Don't even get started on inspectors. Man Don't even get started on.

Marcus: 40:06

I won't go there. I won't go there.

Dan: 40:08

Oh man.

Marcus: 40:10

We'll stay on this one. You had mentioned the. When you started trying to get sellers, it seemed like a subject too, which is they hold the mortgage. You're basically going to take over their payments, but the problem you're running into is they need their cash out.

James: 40:30

Yeah.

Marcus: 40:31

Like they just want to be done with the property and be out. Is that something that you ran into multiple times and then we're like we got to change gears? Or is it because, as I'm finding out, because I'm just now getting into subject too, as a hey, this might be another avenue we can get into, so I'm learning more and more about it. That is a facet of real estate that you could spend 40 hours a week doing just that.

Dan: 40:58

Yeah.

Marcus: 40:58

So what was your experience with running into those type of situations, or were there not many of those?

James: 41:05

I just felt like I was banging my head against the wall because I made a lot of calls. We get a lot of for sale by owners, so daily I had ones to call. So you mentioned subject too. I'm in Pace Morby's subject two group if you're familiar with.

Marcus: 41:19

Nice Yep. I just read his subject two book Well without cash. I believe was called.

James: 41:25

Yeah, I haven't read it yet. But yeah, toby and I joined really early on it was three years ago something like that and we he was like hey, somebody's got to start the estate group you know, and do in-person meetups. So Toby and I started that. We spent a lot of time and money trying to find people that subject to was a good fit for, again felt like we were beating our heads against the wall and like over time I know a lot of other people have been doing that continuing to do With subject to, you got to be careful You're not putting that seller into a bad position. So if you because a lot of investors want to go after those because they can't go get a loan as an investor, right, but what if things go wrong? You're going to have to cash them out. Like, say, the bank does call that. Note, do.

Dan: 42:28

Yep.

James: 42:29

You can do? Can you go get a loan? Is that a backup plan or is there no other backup plan? So you got to be, you know, aware of that. For Denver it's a really tough market to find them. I know people run across them all the time and they'll send them to me and Toby's really good at analyzing deals and we're like that's not a good deal so pass pass. So we've kind of given up here. You know, once in a while somebody does find one. But the guys that are having success here, like in our Colorado group, are doing it out of state in other states. Yeah, that's where they find the traction. So, yeah, not every market's a good fit for it.

Marcus: 43:15

Yeah, not every market is not every, I guess price point I guess might be a that's not the right way to phrase it, but I guess it goes along with market. And then there's like the legal side to it. There's some municipalities or states that are for it not really for it, but easier for you to navigate through it. Sure, on the on the rent to own side, have you seen states or maybe within Colorado, cities that are either a little bit more helpful or a little bit more? The rules are a little bit looser so you don't feel as confined. Because I'm trying to think as I go through a rent to own deal, where the legal hiccups might be and that was always a question of mine as I learned about rent to own Like I've never done one of those deals what am I going to run into that either let's puts me as a liability or them in hot water as the buyer. And that was one part that, like kind of, has always left me a little timid.

James: 44:21

Yeah, well, we've had multiple attorneys look over our docs. We had one potential buyer didn't go through. She was not being forthcoming about where her option fee was coming from. So we got way into appraisal to get her to this house and then found out, oh, she didn't have the money to pay up front. So that was upsetting for her and everybody's like yeah, we learned a lesson on that and that one. But she took our contracts to an attorney that we know and he's like okay, I'd make this such and such changes because of we've had a lot of changes in our landlord tenant laws in Colorado, definitely going the wrong way for an investor and crazy, just some crazy stuff there, throw it out there. But anyway, he had some good suggestions. So we have a really nicely balanced set of documents. So, yeah, I'm trying to think of like gotchas. Well, and you mentioned states. So Texas is the only state that I know that's way more restrictive than the others. Really, it's got to be under three years, I believe.

Marcus: 45:44

Yeah. I've comes up on the subject to thing too. So that's funny that they have the same kind of timeline on that one. That's cool.

James: 45:52

Yeah, because I think historically, if you give people too much time, they probably won't end up buying. Yeah.

Marcus: 46:00

And from what I've heard, also on the lending side, the lenders don't want more than a three year because then they should just get a new mortgage and then they would be able to redo or raise their rate to normal market rate. And then now you're back into that first few years of interest payments. Like it's very advantageous for the lender to get a new mortgage on it than for you to put a lease in place for six years. So that was one of the reasons why it was a little bit more constrictive on the length of lease that you can put a tenant into. So it's funny to say that. But I thought Texas would have been the wild, the wild card, because it's so backwards from what I would expect to yeah.

Dan: 46:44

Yeah, random thought if you had properties that you were trying to sell to a with a rental and option to possible new owners buyers, if you could have developed a relationship with a bank or an investment firm, what would prevent you from just co-signing on every mortgage so that these people could move in right away to be able to buy the house and, like you, basically you would still own the property with them, in conjunction with them, and then either have a five year break or a 10 year break and basically being just a co-signer on every one of the properties, and then, if something falls through, they're still liable but you still retain ownership. Does that make sense? I know it's very simply said.

Marcus: 47:36

I do have a thought. But if you've got something I'll let you go with it. But I know that you can only have a certain amount of mortgages in your name, so you'd have to have a pretty good cycle going where your buyers are then buying you out so you can take that off your name, because at a certain point I think it's 13. Does that want to say? I thought it was?

Dan: 47:55

10 personally. And then unless it was commercial or through an LLC, it's a little bit different, or Wisconsin at least.

James: 48:02

Federally backed loans. Yeah, you're limited to I thought it was eight or 10, something like that. You can do DSCR loans and get beyond that, go to a local commercial bank, go beyond that. So that's not really a factor.

Dan: 48:16

Yeah, put all the loans into one. Yeah.

James: 48:18

So just to the co-signing thing, so we can do it. Lease option we're retaining the deed and that gets transferred to the buyer until they get their loan. So they don't have equitable interest in the house until they get a real loan, and that's what our attorneys suggest Can also do. Contract for deed we haven't Toby and I haven't personally done that, and our attorneys suggest not doing that, because in that case it is like you're basically paying play in the bank at that point and if they screw up you have to foreclose on them, not evict them, and there's equitable interest. So there's advantages and disadvantages on both sides.

Dan: 49:11

And now I'm thinking it through too there's probably tax implications, because who gets to claim the interest on it? Who gets to claim yeah, ok.

James: 49:18

Yeah the thing like on the investor side, if you do a contract for deed, it's just like you're playing the bank. You're not having to go fix toilets and do any of that stuff, Because they have ownership of it. They've got a loan on it.

Marcus: 49:34

So yeah, but it's funny that you brought that up because I just I was going through PACE's I think it was on his Instagram, something social media, and he had gotten a house under contract in an HOA. So, they wanted to get this tenant in, but the bylaws or the declaration page of the HOA said you can't live in this property, basically can't be a rental because of rentals they don't own equity in the home. So what they did in the contract is they made them a 0.0001% owner and they got through it. And I was like he is so creative, like how do you do that? He's got people that are telling him Well, I know.

Dan: 50:13

He doesn't come up. I mean not discounting PACE's intelligence. But he's got the right people in place to tell him hey, this is how you circumvent that issue. I mean, he got around it, so good for him, Great.

James: 50:25

But that's another way of like with short term rentals. Where it's not allowed, you make that person that's short term renting part of the company, like through like a membership type thing.

Marcus: 50:42

I like this. How much do you know on this? Because where I live they cannot do any short term tenants Like there's nothing.

James: 50:50

Yeah well, denver. I used to be a super host with a room in my house. It's got to be in your primary residence in Denver. So there was a couple of agents that were skirting that for a while and I think they went to jail for a bit. Really Made an example out of them.

Dan: 51:09

That's not a civil issue, that's a criminal issue. If it's a going against city code like how is that doesn't make sense. Yeah, I don't know Unless there may be tax implications or something. That would be what I'm thinking right off the top of my head which would get them caught up.

Marcus: 51:24

But if they want to make a spectaclub, it they'll go where they can Interesting.

Dan: 51:30

So basically, they just have to buy into part of the ownership of your company. To then say, hey, I'm a co-owner of the business, I'm just living here, and then we're paying the business to stay here for not a bad idea.

Marcus: 51:45

Yeah, I know, Obviously that would be hard to do with Airbnb's for three to four month tenants. I could see that as a pretty good co-owner loophole, but I'm not sure I know a gal in Vegas that's doing that for her short term rentals.

James: 52:03

There's got to be some easy paperwork thing where you're not going to go make an update to your LLC or something right.

Marcus: 52:09

Right, and you wrap the cost of what the processing fee would be into the rental rate.

James: 52:15

Yeah, yeah for one night. It's got to be cheap.

Marcus: 52:19

Yeah right.

James: 52:20

Yeah, I don't know how.

Marcus: 52:21

That's crazy.

James: 52:22

Interesting, I love the creativity I do too, as long as it doesn't land you in freaking jail. Right, let's be a boat board here.

Marcus: 52:31

Yeah, I don't like it, I was going to ask you, because, obviously, rent to own there is no standard contract for that. It's all terms, it's all what. So don't share the illegal ones. But what was your most creative deal that you got to put together? Because that is like I'm getting the nervous shakes, that the adrenaline's going and it's actually like it's very inspiring and a deal's about to fall through, but you find out a solution, it all works out. Did you have one of those deals that sticks out in your head of one of your favorite ones?

James: 53:08

My least favorite one is probably the.

Marcus: 53:10

That was my next question. That was my next.

James: 53:13

Well, I'll start with my favorite, my favorite?

Marcus: 53:15

What do you want?

James: 53:16

to take. My favorite was one where we partnered with our partner in Minnesota. He had a guy that was a newer real estate agent. He had maybe a year under his belt. He couldn't go get a loan to buy a house for himself because he's self-employed All two years. He picked out a duplex. We bought it for him. He lived in one side, paid a lot less in rent for his side and then within a year and a half he was able to buy that and then also buy a single family home for him as his fiancee and wife or something at the same time. So within a year and a half he was able to have two doors plus the house he was living in. And he walked into a lot of equity because we set the purchase price, the future price, from when we buy it. It's agreed upon ahead of time. But this was during COVID and it went woo. So he walked into I think 40 or 60 grand equity and our investor was still happy. He made cash flow and he had a great tenant and made money. But that was my favorite. Oh, and then because he had been through that program as a buyer and buyer now he helps Jesse screen tenants that are coming into the program wanting to do it because he's been through it.

Marcus: 54:45

Yeah, that's awesome.

James: 54:47

Yeah, so that's my favorite one. Besides, the family in Honduras love getting them into a house.

Marcus: 54:54

That's rewarding. That's got to feel so good to set them up for success. I mean that guy walking in with so much equity, the people from out of the states coming in and having their American dream come true. I think that's got to be so rewarding.

James: 55:11

It is yeah, yeah. When I got into investing, I was like I'll do it ethically but it'll just be about money. Then I realized, wow, this is so cool With what we're doing. We're really helping those end buyers with rent-to-own and our investors building wealth and they're also able to help people. Yeah, love that as well. We also raise money for syndications, for multi-family self-storage mobile home parks, for people that are just busy professionals wanting to get into passive deals. So I love that I'm helping these other people, not just myself, with my own investing.

Dan: 55:54

Yeah.

James: 55:56

Yeah, so yeah, that's the cool thing that.

Marcus: 55:59

I brought up. Yeah, it was going to be the worst one, the worst one, oh man, so it was a couple.

James: 56:12

Covid affected their jobs. They had some debts that were accumulating and they're like, but they had a house. Actually, in this case, we've done a couple of these. They had homes with some equity so we sold their house. They wanted to move to a rural area in Colorado. Once we sold the house, then we were scrambling to try to find a place in this rural area. Well, many problems For one. Most in their price range were modular and manufactured homes, which is harder to get loans for investors, for them to get a loan. We ended up finding a stick belt, one that we bailed on initially because there was a for sale by owner and the owner was a pain, and then eventually we came back, got hands behind her. We're like we want to look at this again and we actually got through it.

Marcus: 57:18

Was the seller a little bit more decent the second time around, or still kind?

Dan: 57:22

of down.

Marcus: 57:22

No, she's still better.

James: 57:25

But she did hire an agent a local agent to help work through some stuff. Thankfully, that poor agent, she didn't get paid much but she was an angel. I still keep in contact. I try to send her referrals. The buyers were pretty tough to deal with. They had high expectations. There was a lot of yelling and crying and, oh my god, it was crazy. But, they were grateful like we got them into the house. Yeah, worked through it, but it was rural and there was septic and well and water testing and two parcels that hadn't been merged. So there was a lot of complications with that, but we worked through it. And then that made me realize why a lot of other rent-owned companies avoid rural. They want to stay in metro areas, near good schools, where you don't have to deal with some of that stuff and if you get it back, more people want that property than a rural area where it's you've got a really small buyer pool. Not that we ever want to get it back, but it could happen.

Marcus: 58:41

Yeah, I had one question. I know we're coming up in an hour so I've got to stop with my questions but with lending to modular or prefab homes, were you getting the pushback from just Banny and Freddie government loans or even private loans weren't even lending on it.

James: 59:05

Yeah, so I don't even know if Fannie and Freddie will loan on those.

Marcus: 59:11

Yeah, I wasn't. I know like VA usually doesn't and FHA won't. Yeah, those are like the smallest of boxes you have to fit into. Yeah, yeah, I just sold my sister's house and their lender was going to be. Their lending fell through about a week before closing so they had to hurry up and get a new one. It ended up being FHA and they wouldn't close on the loan because this shed that should have been torn down before had a few like one little patch of chipping paint on the casing. Yeah, it was like a four, a four by two inch little section and they're like that needs to be painted. So I got on the phone with the agent and I was like hey, I've got the paint, I've got the brushes. If you've got the time and he's like, I'll have him out there to paint it. So I dropped off the paint, they painted it, the inspector came back in and everything closed on time. But man, it's, why does that matter? But all right, sounds good.

James: 1:00:13

Yeah, wow, paint. Yeah, I know some lenders that specialize in mobile manufactured. They're much higher amounts down, higher rates, like yeah, really tough. And so, like we were, we had one investor that was all ready to go. That's also a lender. But when we were looking at those manufactured and mobile homes, she's like I'm out, I'm not going to, I'm not going to be an investor on one of those. She's like I'll do, stick built.

Marcus: 1:00:48

Did she tell you the reason?

James: 1:00:50

Because everybody's reason will be different, but I'm just yeah, because it was harder to find those loans riskier. I don't know really where the risk is. Besides, you know it's a depreciating asset, you know, unless it's if it's purged, you know anchored to the ground and officially kind of seen as, yeah, that helps. But then also the end buyer has to also get a loan. That might be a lot more down, Higher interest rates.

Marcus: 1:01:23

So just the numbers might not work, because of that, because in in the area where I live and even in the surrounding communities, you can find prefab homes that they drop on a a poured out basement, and I mean it's permanent. I mean I've just never ran into an issue with lending on it. But I'm trying to think back to see if I ever had a direct like client trying to get lending on one of those.

James: 1:01:51

No, I know a guy here that focuses just on those. You probably have a lot more info on that, yeah we had.

Dan: 1:02:00

We had a guest not maybe with one of our last six or seven guests. He would only focus on buying mobile home parks.

James: 1:02:08

Yeah, most of those guys that buy parks though they only want to own the land and random, they don't want to own the actual units, Right?

Marcus: 1:02:18

That's the brain and Turner method, I guess.

James: 1:02:20

Yeah, yeah, was that the case with that guest you're talking about?

Dan: 1:02:23

I don't recall if he said I don't know if he had in other investors where they would buy the whole, just the land, or they. I think they did buy the properties or the units themselves because he would fix and flip them and then I think he would either sell them, the units it was like he bought the whole thing with the units and then he would sell off the units individually later and then either add more, but he said it's harder and harder to find municipalities or cities that will allow you to build new ones. So that's why it's easier to look for established ones, and most of those are mom and pop shops that he had success with buying or acquiring.

James: 1:03:05

So yeah, a lot of people are looking for those. We're looking for them.

Marcus: 1:03:10

Well, if we get a lead, we'll pass it along there we go Cool. Absolutely Well. We're past our hour. I want to be respectful of your time. But just because I think rent to own is such a fascinating and great way to get into home buying and because you can go everywhere, I want to say to all the listeners, like, how should they contact you? Because if they are looking for a house right now, rent to own, look into that. At least investigate it and talk to you to find out if that's an avenue. Because, man, if you can have somebody go out and connect the dots for you and you're not sitting in the competition pool of waiting for your offer to get accepted, I feel like it's a no-brainer. So how should they reach out to you? How should they get in contact?

James: 1:03:59

Yeah, if it's a buyer, then go to realhomesolutionsorg. I've got a show too and a lot of other ways to connect. They can just go to linktree yeah, linktreelinktree and then partner with James Brown. Yeah, we stream live. It's called this Month in Real Estate Investing. We go through the news of the month that affects us as investors, and I have three guests on, and so we just kind of dive into what we think about that news for the months.

Marcus: 1:04:53

Yeah, so we stream live. It's like your newsletter. I love that.

James: 1:04:56

Yeah, but yeah. So we stream live to YouTube and my LinkedIn paid channel Facebook groups and then it goes out to all the podcast audio channels.

Marcus: 1:05:10

Awesome. And then, obviously, if you're in bigger pockets, you can contact my bigger pockets because, you already mentioned, you are a pro member, so we'll link all that stuff to the show notes, so people listening want to get in contact with you. I am heavily pushing them to do that because, man, it's a great option. Yeah, that's super cool.

James: 1:05:29

I'd love to work with you guys too, so let's stay in touch.

Marcus: 1:05:32

Yeah, I'd love to get out to Denver. It would be awesome.

Dan: 1:05:36

Yeah, my last experience with Denver was not a good one. I was driving an RV downhill through the mountains and that was not fun. I was like white knuckle the whole way. I mean just, it was brand new to us but it was a 1984 Ford RV 27 footer and you see the signs like mind your brakes, or pay attention to your brakes, don't burn out or whatever it is, and curve into it was. I did not like it at all, man, I could not wait to get out of there. That was not fun. That can be sketchy. It was. It was yeah, but other than that, yeah, we could check it out.

James: 1:06:09

Yeah.

Dan: 1:06:10

Cool, Thank you for the time. Well, I will make sure to link and then I'll shoot you an email and send you the the the podcast links if you want to either share it with your groups as well, Cool.

James: 1:06:21

Yeah.

Marcus: 1:06:24

Yeah, thanks for the time. Enjoy the weather, enjoy the snow.