Sorority House updating and Interior Design with Liz Toombs

Ever wondered about the design and aesthetics behind the sorority houses on college campuses? We take you behind the scenes in this insightful conversation with Liz Toombs, a Kentucky-based interior designer who has carved a niche for herself, specializing in Sorority house remodels. Liz takes us on her journey, starting from how she fell into the world of college housing design, to building her brand around creating comfortable student spaces. We explore the unique culture of college campuses, sorority branding, and how she balances these elements to create a timeless and clean aesthetic.

The second part of our discussion shifts to the challenges and complexities that come with remodeling historic buildings on college campuses. Liz underlines the importance of staying current with codes and standards, and putting together a robust team for each project. We also delve into how she navigates out-of-state opportunities and how COVID-19 has impacted her work. Liz shares her insight on managing on-site visits, the nuances of dealing with historic buildings, and how she tackles the unique challenges thrown her way.

Finally, we dig into the importance of networking and building relationships for success in this niche. We discuss various financial options for these projects, and how to handle budgetary constraints and construction timelines. Liz offers valuable insight into the opportunity of creating Instagram-worthy spaces for Greek housing life, stressing the need for a robust online presence. Join us for this illuminating conversation with Liz Toombs, and get a glimpse into the fascinating world of sorority housing design.

Website:
https://pdr-interiors.com/
Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/pdrinteriors/?hl=en
Tiktok:
https://www.tiktok.com/@pdr_interiors

Highlight Timestamps

(00:11 - 00:52) Renovating Sorority Houses for Women (41 Seconds)

(03:50 - 04:30) College Campus Organization's Unique Brand (39 Seconds)

(10:30 - 12:26) Barriers and Solutions in Sorority Renovations (116 Seconds)

(16:36 - 18:30) Organizing Construction Projects Across States (114 Seconds)

(21:37 - 23:20) Price Increases' Impact on Construction Projects (103 Seconds)

(27:59 - 28:39) Recruitment Week Table Discussion (40 Seconds)

(31:00 - 32:02) Commercial Versus Residential Project Financing (62 Seconds)

(40:56 - 42:10) Creating Home-Like Multifamily Spaces (74 Seconds)

Chapter Timestamps

(00:03) - Designing Sorority Housing

(10:30) - Fundraising and Projects for Sorority Facilities

(14:57) - Challenges and Considerations in Campus Remodeling

(26:06) - Sorority Lead Generation and Networking

(34:15) - Create Instagram-Worthy Spaces for Greek Life

Sorority Housing, Interior Design, College Dorms, Greek Housing, Historic Buildings, Codes and Standards, Project Financing, Fundraising, Networking, QR Codes, Instagram-Worthy Spaces, Recruitment Week, Foreman, Budgetary Constraints, Construction Timelines, Large Projects, Small Projects, Sororities, Fraternity, Rush week

Transcript

00:03 - Marcus (Host)
Welcome back to MVP podcast season three, episode 22. We have Liz Toombs here from Kentucky. She is in a niche market that I've never heard of, so this was like all brand new stuff for me. It was very interesting. I feel like I was asking every question I possibly could because I was starting at square one. She does sorority housing and she goes from campus to campus, chapter to chapter, renovating these houses for sorority women, which is a niche that I mean I didn't know was there Right. 

00:44
So as we got to learn, she said to some information before the show we got to look at some pictures. It's super cool what she's doing. So if you do listen, also check out the show notes, because we left some contact information, for we left links to our website and some photos so you can take a look at all that stuff. All right, now let's bring Liz on the show. Thanks for joining us. I do start the show the same way every time, so if you can give our audience kind of a background about what you do. And then I guess how you got there, because everybody has like a very unique beginning Some were teachers and some were firefighters, and they end up getting into some sort of real estate or investing. 

01:22 - Liz Toombs (Guest)
So yeah yeah, so I own PDR interiors based in Lexington, but all of our work is pretty much remote. We have a very unique niche market and that we focus on sorority housing, some fraternity as well, but Greek housing on college campuses. 

01:39
So, that's unusual little market there, and it's. It was an interesting path to get their real estate sparked my interest in design. My granddad was a retired elementary school principal, got into real estate and I was able to accompany him on open houses and just sort of experience what it was like to be in different styles of homes, and so that really piqued my interest in design. I was able to get my start in interior design in about 2007. I went to work for a design firm and spent a couple years with them getting some certifications, and then I went out on my own and oh nine, and then fell into this world of Greek housing design. In 2010, a fraternity hired me to help them with their house at the University of Kentucky and then everything just sort of snowballed from there and I've really created a great niche market with that group. 

02:35 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, I would say this is a very niche market. I have never heard of it before. Which? 

02:39 - Liz Toombs (Guest)
is super exciting, Like there's a lot of people that aren't familiar with it or they're like what you know you do, what, yeah? So it's kind of an underground market. 

02:50 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, and it is obviously a big market. Because my big question when you, when we learn about what you do, is this more of like a? Do you set up more as like a long term rental, or is this kind of like a furnished, kind of like an Airbnb space where you get to take the furnishings in and put your personal touch on that stuff? Like, how far does it go in your design? 

03:14 - Liz Toombs (Guest)
So it's. It's, I guess maybe in the terms of your question, it's more of like long term rental. It's not Airbnb style. It is not really anything about me either. It's more about the organization that I'm working for and like what their brand symbols and colors are, what their culture is, what the culture is on campus, and then we sort of spin that into creating a comfortable space for the call the college way. 

03:45 - Marcus (Host)
Okay, awesome. Oh, it froze a little bit, but I think we're back right. Yeah, awesome, cool, okay. So what is your I guess brand? Where does that? Because Dan was looking up photos and I think we're going to add some to the show notes so that we can actually see the brand that you guys are presenting. I'm not going to a big college so I missed that whole environment, so this is all very new to me. I guess the university I went to actually no longer exists, oh funny. So what is not necessarily the symbols, but what is your brand like? What do you try to bring on to college campuses that makes you guys unique? 

04:27 - Liz Toombs (Guest)
I really appreciate that question. So our brand is trying to be very clean line, just give a really comfortable aesthetic for you know we're dealing with 18 to like 21, 22 year olds. We still are also trying to appeal to alumni of this organization. So you're you're balancing a lot of factors there and we really know different than working with a residential family that has, you know, different generations in it. But we really work it on trying to make the choices for finishes classic and timeless, because you're not going to turn around and do this every year and the trends may change and you don't want your house to look dated because it keeps you being competitive within recruitment on the college campus. 

05:07
So there's a little bit of that timeless quality, that clean line aesthetic. So the collegians really are into more of like a mid century modern, transitional design style rather than like a heavy or Nate traditional look, and so I think that's where my team and I fall in as far as our brand and our aesthetic that we put forward. 

05:27 - Marcus (Host)
That's cool, yeah, and obviously like with me not going to big university, you see, like the fraternities and and all that stuff on TV and you get like the party houses and it's all just like chaos. And as I was working, dan and I actually worked previously at a fundraising company I got to work with. It wasn't a fraternity, it was a sorority, but it wasn't women in the university, was all the alumni and they would raise money for their chapter and it was very, very cool to see how organized they were and how how they were structured. It was kind of like a well run operation, like a business, not just girls that wanted to party and all had a 12 bedroom house. That was chaos on the weekends and I turned my my thought to it all and it's like I've got more questions because of that interaction. Like, do you get hired by the university or do you get hired by the, the home owner? Like, how does that work? Where is? How does that all line up? 

06:30 - Liz Toombs (Guest)
Yeah, that might be a very dumb question. 

06:32 - Marcus (Host)
I don't know. 

06:34 - Liz Toombs (Guest)
But the question that I get asked the most, that everyone's assumption is the university calls us in, but that's not the case. It's usually the organization, and so when you say the homeowner, that's where it gets tricky, because on some campuses the university owns the facility and then the organization owns it and they're in charge of outfitting it and keeping it with all the maintenance. In other instances the organization owns the facility outright and then an even stranger instances the university could own the land and the organization owns the building that it's on. So there's some different paths that you can go there. Regardless, it's typically the organization that calls us in. It's usually an alumni board, just like you mentioned, or it's the headquarters housing office and they call our team and they say, hey, we need x, y and z done. We have this much money, here's our deadline. You know, can you go look at the project and what can we do? 

07:25 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, and do you try and keep your colors and obviously style that you were talking about all the same throughout different campuses so that you can have that brand spread through different universities? Or do the boards? Are they specific? Like we want to go here and this is how we want to take it. 

07:44 - Liz Toombs (Guest)
We my team does not keep our look necessarily the same across campuses because, as you can imagine, different regions of the country have different flares and different aesthetic styles. So, you know, the ones we've done in Oregon look very different than the ones we've done in Louisiana and, you know, not maybe in terms of color for a certain organization, but just some of the style and some of the, just the extra details that go into it, and typically the board will have preferences on the look that they want and we ask that they communicate that to us. That's where Pinterest is a godsend, because if they can show us photos, then we can really get inside their head and understand the vision that they're trying to create with their space. 

08:25 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, I was just talking to Dan. I'm not very tech savvy. Dan does a lot of it, but I was talking to him. 

08:32 - Dan (Host)
I need to get a Pinterest board because, as we're doing, designs in our houses don't even start with your. I do. 

08:38 - Marcus (Host)
I need one because there's a lot of styles that I would like that if I could, just because it's in here, but it's hard for me to explain it, which I'm sure you run into a lot where they've got an idea. But with you and your let your mind, knowing how to articulate that design, me, I don't really have the design feature, I'm more on the structural side of it. It's very hard for me to articulate what I'm thinking, unless I can draw it, which is prepared to lose hours of your life going down rabbit holes and pinterest. 

09:10
That's what I heard. That's what I heard and that's what I'm scared of. 

09:13 - Liz Toombs (Guest)
Yes, but what happens is, I mean the the old adage a picture is worth 1000 words is so true because you could use specific style words. You could say I love, you know something mid century, modern or transitional, and that could mean one thing in your mind's eye and then I could be thinking something else. But if you can show me a photograph, then I can fully understand. And then all you've been going to the details and say in the notes of the photos Tell me what you like and what you don't like in this picture, because you could be all about that sofa, but I'm thinking you're telling me like the paint color. So like, just get crystal clear on what we're going for here. Yeah, we can make that happen. 

09:51 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, and for us, when we've done like interior remodels, basements, kitchens, like that, we always say like, alright, get your Pinterest dream board, and then we have the pictures and that also helps us with budget. Yes, because we don't want to overcharge you. If you, if you want Wayne's coding and this is the type of Wayne's coding that could be a big difference in price between which ones you want. So if you can show me what you're thinking, I can at least walk you through price point and then timeline as well. 

10:20 - Liz Toombs (Guest)
Yeah, and budget is such a place where people can be unrealistic on one end or the other, and so if you can have that conversation up front, it's incredibly helpful so that you're on the same page. 

10:30 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, and do you find, like that is a I don't know a barrier to entry for you guys with these boards? Because I know the sorority that I worked with. They were fundraising, obviously for a reason, so that they could keep improving their chapter. I don't know if the sororities you're working with do that same thing. Or again, new world for me. 

10:52 - Liz Toombs (Guest)
Yeah, so yeah, sometimes there's fundraising. You know they're always collecting dues throughout the year. A portion of the dues are going to keep up the facility and, just you know, set aside for savings and typically these projects are done like every five to seven years and it's just like I said, it's not like you're turning them over annually, and so then there is time to create a nest egg to fund for that. But I wouldn't say that price is an entry to barrier for us. But it can be. 

11:19
You know, not every facility is a huge Greek house like you see in the movies, are on TV, like you talked about. 

11:26
Sometimes it's a large multi purpose room on a res hall floor where all of the members of that organization live on that dorm floor and then they can hang out in that space, and so it would be like a really large TV room in a residential house, and so we're brought in to do that. So, as you can imagine, if your chapter smaller or your dues aren't as high or your space is smaller than there, may not always be a lot of money to spend, but that doesn't mean that they deserve, you know, a lesser space, and so we do all size projects and we really enjoy getting to do that variety, and so our fees vary based on what the scope of work is. But we also could see that there are some chapters that either they just don't want to hire professional help or maybe they can't afford to. So we created an online course where we took our process and put it in video form and checklist form and we can sell that to people and it's at a much lower price point, so we can hire us full service. 

12:24 - Marcus (Host)
That's very cool. That's a nice little added. What did you guys implement that? 

12:28 - Liz Toombs (Guest)
we did that in 2020. So you know, as you can imagine, everything was super topsy turvy. We were very blessed and our projects continued through that year, but we had, you know, a lot of time at home. So my team and I really got together and worked about like taking all these ideas out of our head and putting it into this course and creating it for these people to have, and so we just try to spread the word about it. 

12:52 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, and I'm sure the board likes, because that probably gives them more hands on feel to the project. Yes, which is, you can imagine. 

13:01 - Liz Toombs (Guest)
If somebody is a DIY or you know they have great taste, they just aren't sure exactly how to execute a project for their chapter house. And this gives them that professional knowledge and it's a repeatable process. So they can buy the course habit and they could use it on one room this year and then start working on the next room the following year. 

13:20 - Marcus (Host)
So that's a really good idea, especially during that time period where things are crazy and I don't know if it hurt, like you guys, not being able to be on site because everything was getting locked down and shrunk. So that was a really good like that's very smart, quick thinking way to keep things rolling, so that was awesome. 

13:38 - Liz Toombs (Guest)
Thank you. 

13:39 - Marcus (Host)
Thank you. I have a question on. I always like asking, like, what was the coolest project you worked on? Because I feel like you have walked into some very, very outdated I'll call it places. Yeah, to give them a facelift. What was the coolest? You don't like tell us the university, but do you have a favorite project that you got to work on? 

14:03 - Liz Toombs (Guest)
I do. I do have a favorite project I got to work on and it was a couple years ago and it just everything about it was so fun. The board was delightful to work with. I really enjoyed collaborating with them because we get very close with our clients, because a lot of these projects have such a long lead time and you know you're in their space. 

14:20
I'm sure you understand like it gets very personal, and so there were just a lot of neat details in this project. Like there was a bookcase that was actually a hidden door into a room and so it just really cute little things that like only the design and the production team and the board knew about. But it just it was really special to create this space for them because it was an older, outdated house. They were the first ones on campus to decide to go through a renovation. Now the whole campus, all the Greek houses, are now lining up to get their work done to stay competitive. It was a major remodel in addition to that house and it was just a really fun project for me. 

14:57 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, in remodeling those old buildings is fun but difficult. There's a lot of nuances that you got to keep through and I'm imagining with some of these older college campuses you've got historic buildings that they want to keep that feel and they don't want like a I don't know a cheap molding. They want like actual molding in that historic building, I'm assuming. 

15:21 - Liz Toombs (Guest)
Yeah, no, you're exactly right, especially like we're working on bidding a project right now down in North Carolina that it is in a historic house and so we do have the like National Historic Preservation. That's a whole part of this project and an extra layer that we're going to have to consider, and so, yes, you're exactly right to keep the integrity and the character of the space. You have to think of things like that. You don't necessarily want to go in with cheap materials. That has to be durable, but then you have to pay for it because they're not cheap. 

15:48 - Dan (Host)
Yeah, so I'm going to be the question the other one then do you have to then obviously stay up on codes or familiarize yourself with local codes and like standards when you are working on a project like that? And then, how do you sometimes incorporate or hide certain things in a project, like I saw in one of your pictures? There was like an emergency exit light or like a hazard light. How do you hide that stuff? Or like smoke detectors, or how do you get creative with things like that? 

16:16 - Liz Toombs (Guest)
Yeah, sadly we can't hide much of that stuff. It's just what it is in those facilities. But typically there's our team and then an architect team and then the contractor as well. So the architecture team usually is the one that is handling the codes and we're all kind of communicating about that. So that's usually how that works out. 

16:36 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, and is your team in-house Because you're obviously working? You've mentioned Seattle, I think, earlier Kentucky, we got North Carolina, so your building crews, your architects, like that, obviously falls on you to organize that team per state or per area that you're working in. 

16:54 - Liz Toombs (Guest)
It depends on the scope of the project. So let's say we're doing like a big remodel or a big new construction project, so the organization that's planning this, hiring it out, they will tend to send out RFPs for the contractors, the architects and the designers, so they are the ones choosing each one of us and then bringing us together. Now there is a great group of folks within all of those categories that we've tended to work together. Before we focus on the Greek industry, we're familiar with each other, but it's not always us working together, so that varies, excuse me. Now, if you're talking about a smaller scale project where maybe we're just, you know, painting, changing out some light fixtures, light remodeling, hanging artwork, then my team, yes, will contract out with a handyman, or potentially the university, depending on what the rules and regulations are, and we will oversee that side of things. So it just really varies from project to project. But you're right, we've worked on over 100 campuses across 25 plus states at this point, and it's different almost everyone. 

17:58 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, I can imagine, because I mean codes change from municipality within the state, so jumping between state, you've got, I mean, I'm sure, different building materials that they want used and oh man, that would be a. That's part of the reason why I have invested out of state, because I can't keep up with all that stuff. 

18:17 - Liz Toombs (Guest)
It is. It's a whole extra layer that you're not prepared for. You know you've really got to stay up on it, or you can. You can get burned in the end. 

18:25 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, and that's where the strong team comes in handy. I mean, anybody that invests out of state and does that. You need to have boots on the ground in that area and do you actually get to go and see these places Like, do you get to go, or is it? I know you said a lot of it's remote. 

18:39 - Liz Toombs (Guest)
Yeah, so typically we'll do two to three visits. So we usually a trip on the front end to scope everything out, meet with everyone and just see what our starting point is. And then we do most of our work remotely back in the office, with like OAC calls every week and that type of thing, and then on the end we'll go and we'll install the furniture and just be there to put all the finishing touches on things. And there are times that we show up and the space is completely ready, finished and clean and we can put it all in. And there are times that we are installing while there are still construction crews painting and installing floors and it's just pure chaos. 

19:15 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, and I'm sure you'd have to align that with when students are on campus and off campus and you need to get it done before everybody moves in, because that is going to be a big problem when you've got kids getting dropped off or getting to campus and their space is not ready. 

19:31 - Liz Toombs (Guest)
You have no idea the stress that that is caused by that, and we're always the last one in right Because the construction has to get done, the cleaners have to get done ideally but sometimes we're all there on top of each other because students are moving in and recruitment's coming up and they have to practice and prepare and you want it done so. When the women come in, you know they're just their faces light up and they're so excited about their new space and to show it off. But it's not always a perfect world. So we do the best we can. 

19:58 - Marcus (Host)
Yes, and especially we mentioned that rough period during COVID where delays were extreme. Did you run into the I-Roll set it? So I'm guessing you ran into a lot of delays with fixtures and furnishings. How did you? How did you fix that? Like, do you have a warehouse where you keep most things, or is it per project? Because I guess everything is different? It'd be hard to keep inventory. 

20:22 - Liz Toombs (Guest)
Yeah, I don't keep inventory because I don't want to assume what my customers are going to want, but we work with different warehouses in different regions that will accept items for us and hold it, and then they'll deliver and unpack and so on. But yeah, we hit so many delays. I joked that it was something new every day and it really wasn't funny. But it had to become funny because, you know, one minute it was well, the fabric's backordered for this long. Or, oh, I'm sorry, you know this factory is shut down because of COVID. Or oh, surprise, today Now there's a foam shortage and so your upholstery won't be ready for six more months. 

20:57
And so it was just constantly having to field that information from manufacturers. Understand what I could do to fix it, or, you know, to help the situation and then call the customer, deliver the bad news and come up with plan B. And actually, erica on my team and I we joked all year that we had to have not only plan B but C through Z at that point, because we never knew what was coming for us. And so 2020 was rough, but most of the ripples that we had hit in 21 and 22. It just took some time for everything to finally course correct and get better, and those were probably the roughest two years as far as delays. And then with the price increases, it just hit everybody really hard. 

21:40 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, and on our side the price increases. What hit the worst? I mean, we never went on a shortage, really, of building material. Some were non-existent. But the price increase on everything which I've heard horror stories, that never happened to us, which is thankful. But contractors would have bids signed and then by the time they went to order the material, that bid is non-existent. It's three times the price of what they bid out. And how do you go back to your clients and say like, hey, I know we had this contract signed, but I don't know what to do. We can't do this for that price. And did you have any horror stories or situations like that? I hope not. 

22:22 - Liz Toombs (Guest)
I didn't have any situations like that with my vendors, but we were on projects that that happened multiple times. There was a remodel that was supposed to happen at the University of Kentucky that that project got halted and went back to bid three times because what they had planned for their steel budget came back in three times the price. And then ultimately what ended up happening is it was cheaper for them to just tear down and rebuild and change some of the materials than to do that remodel, because it was just coming in millions more than what it was supposed to be. And then we had a project in Rhode Island that the dining room, which was considered phase two of the project, was only open this year. It was supposed to be open over a year ago but we had electrical panels that were backordered for so long so we couldn't pass inspection. So it was all of those things causing our clients heartburn that we were like not necessarily in charge of, but we were part of that project and it affected our job as well. 

23:20 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, and that is a difficult thing to go back to your client and let them know that it's kind of out of your hands. But you're tracking on as fast as you can. But I can't make an electrical panel Like I kind of just have to wait for that to show up. 

23:33 - Dan (Host)
Manufacturers even couldn't even make them. 

23:35 - Liz Toombs (Guest)
No, no that was the problem. And then you feel for them because you're in the midst of the project. Something is torn up in the middle. You can't just say, okay, never mind, we're not going to start now, no, we're halfway there. And so the price is the price now, and you got to find out how can you pay for this? Where's the money coming from? 

23:53 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, no, it's difficult. I'm glad it's passed us now and now we're on the bigger like better, greener pastures. So what do you have on the horizon here with, like, either an exciting project coming up or are you, like you adapted and made that online course, are you focusing more on that and trying to develop that? Or what is what's 2024 bringing for you in the company? 

24:16 - Liz Toombs (Guest)
We have some fun new projects that we're excited to be doing. No major like business, you know, roll out or release or anything. We just keep plugging away with that online course as additional offerings to our clients and just. I think I've said this to several people recently. I think I just need a break from trying to adapt and pivot and I'm just going to roll with things for a minute and see how fresh new ideas come. I need a break for some creativity to spark back. 

24:44 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, no, definitely. It's basically just focusing on what you're doing well and then double down on that because you've already innovated, which is a good idea. I'm excited to see what projects you've come with that, because I'm sure you've seen an uptick with that course alone getting people in at a lower price point but still being able to get the product they want, which is very, very cool. 

25:08 - Liz Toombs (Guest)
Yeah. 

25:09 - Marcus (Host)
So we'll see where that takes you. 

25:11 - Liz Toombs (Guest)
Yeah. 

25:12 - Dan (Host)
I got a question regarding when you get one sorority at one university. How does referral work? Have you been successful with like hey, we've done a really good job here, and is it word of mouth from the same sorority to another one at a different campus? Is that helped business for you? 

25:37 - Liz Toombs (Guest)
You know, sometimes it's not necessarily because oh, hey, we're working on this house. You know this other house call and says, hey, will you come help us? It's just having worked on a campus usually bodes well if another organization does call because they say, great, you're familiar with campus, you know the rules, you know the area, this would be great for you to come and help us. So it's not necessarily a director referral from like house to house on a campus, but it certainly helps when we have opportunities arise. 

26:06 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, I was curious how the lead generation went with that if it was a competing sorority, because I know when we worked within academics getting through the red tape and understanding who to talk to and what they like and don't like and what are the forms you need, helped your case to get in and get moving on things. So, yeah, I was curious on that too. Thank you for that question. 

26:29 - Dan (Host)
Well, so, like I guess more more along, what I meant was like if you worked with a specific chapter at the University of Kentucky, if there was another chapter at another university, it either across the country or so Louisville, yeah, so like a different thing a different chapter, but a different chapter, but the same sorority. Does that make sense? 

26:51 - Liz Toombs (Guest)
Yes, exactly yes, I'm with you. So, yes, that that helps us to get work to, especially if we're hired from the headquarters level, because then they're like, okay, well, this team worked on Kentucky and then they're not that far so they can also go over here to Louisville, or they did a great job, can you come up to Brown and handle this project for us? So we get a lot of repeat business from our headquarters level clients and then, when they're local house core boards, so like the little one offs, when they call up and they say, hey, we're ready to do a project, do you have someone you can recommend? They will often recommend us as well, and so, because we've had so much experience in this realm, it usually bodes well for us to get the project. 

27:33 - Marcus (Host)
Cool, yeah, it's nice that you can kind of keep it within the sorority of the chapter and keep that relationship going, I guess. 

27:43 - Liz Toombs (Guest)
Yeah, I've always been big on that. Ever since I started my business, I didn't throw a lot of money into advertising. I spent all my money for marketing on networking, memberships and just ways to connect with people one on one and build relationships. So it was really all word of mouth. And then I've taken that exact same philosophy into this Greek housing world and I tried to participate in events where all of those clients are and just kind of keep snowballing it. 

28:10 - Dan (Host)
Yeah, that was just going to ask that. So, like on, what is it recruitment week or whatever it is? 

28:16
Are you out there with like a table and I mean, I mean I know it sounds funny, but that's kind of like the similar model that we used to do. So we would go to you know, a football coaching clinic or a softball coaching clinic and we would sit there and be like okay, and you'd have instead of us, like you said, that one on one situation, which I do enjoy more so. But when you are at an event like that, you have hundreds, sometimes thousands of coaches that are coming across your, your booth and they could work with a different sport as well. So they're an assistant football coach, but they're the head track coach, so that you get way more opportunities there in a four, six, eight hour window, or whatever it would be. I know it's different. I guess it depends on if you're what level you're trying to reach or attract. 

29:04 - Liz Toombs (Guest)
So yeah, my mind always goes to sales. So, yeah, the same concept, I think, is what I use. I'm just not physically necessarily tabling. At a number of events, I try to build relationships with referral partners, which is like what you're talking about, so that they can keep my name out there and, you know, talk about me if they know someone who has a project. And that's the most beneficial, because that, I think, is the challenge with working remotely is that you're not physically in front of all of these people all the time. It's just not possible. You can't be everywhere, on every campus, and so just building those kinds of relationships have helped us. 

29:41 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, and that was actually going to be my next question is what's the most challenging market? Because this is such a niche focus, it probably has endless amounts of challenges, but and I'm sure your challenges have have changed from when you started to where you are now but is there like one challenge that you would say like in this market? This is something we come up upon throughout whatever chapter we're dealing with. Is there something like that? Or is it truly just so unique that it is project by project basis? 

30:16 - Liz Toombs (Guest)
It really is project by project. I'm trying to think of any kind of like common thread challenge necessary. 

30:25 - Marcus (Host)
I know I hit you with an odd ball. 

30:27 - Liz Toombs (Guest)
No you got me thinking you really did. Yeah, I mean, I think it's just, it's always something there's like a nuance with construction or there is, you know, maybe budgetary constraints. Those are. Those are the two things right now the like budgetary constraints in the construction, like timelines that are probably presenting the most current challenges and just trying to figure out how to navigate that. And, you know, everyone can still make money and the project still gets done on time and the client is happy. 

31:00 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, no, absolutely, and I've been seeing more and more just on the financial side about and this is on the residential. I feel like more of your projects are still commercial because, like you've got Dan was mentioning, like the exit signs and all that, those are like the telltale signs of building. It's also a lot of people in that building it's going to probably phone a commercial. So on the residential side, they do like project financing. So if I was where the general contractor, we come in, here's your project, they would then finance it. The financing company would pay us and they pay their their bill, which is it's been around for a while but it's becoming more and more popular now. Is that an avenue that you guys get to to utilize within your space, or is is there not like a financing option for you guys that a third party company would come in and help those chapters who are fundraising and trying to raise the money and then alleviate that upfront, right away costs? 

32:03 - Liz Toombs (Guest)
No, there are those opportunities, there are those options. It's not necessarily something my team deals with, the deal with it all the time, so it's a combination of fundraising and then that financing upfront and then a plan to pay that off. And you know, now, with interest rates and so much, there's a project we were in the middle of in Washington state, like we were planning it, about to pull the trigger, ready to go, interest rates changed and suddenly it completely changed the budget that they can handle, which then changed the scope of the project, and so we all had to back off and figure out how can we pair this down and change things. And so now there's future phases planned, all because the financial side of it. 

32:44 - Marcus (Host)
That's thanks, because no one, no one wins on that one. That's unfortunate. Yeah, one more question the project isn't completely stunted and it'll keep going. We're still going forward. 

32:55 - Liz Toombs (Guest)
We have great plans It'll be good, and then they'll just be some future phases that will happen. It's just not all happening at once like we hoped. 

33:05 - Dan (Host)
Yeah, I was just asking what you say with, with regards to when you do the redesign or the redecorating of a space, do you have any type of, I guess, freedom to create like any clients that would say, hey, you take this small space here and put your personal touch on it, like, do that and then, like, have you considered and I'm not not trying to, I hope I do not offend you when I asked this like make, make like a space. You know how, when they say this is so, like like an art wall or like Instagram worthy, like, do you have spaces like that sometimes, where you put in the in the sororities or others, others, those businesses, where it will then attract more, maybe social media attention? 

33:51
Oh, like the butterfly wings, that's what I was mean about Not not that, not that basic, but yes, something works. Like who? This is a? This is a great space. I love this touch here and then, like you, put like a small QR code in the bottom space. But hey, you can, you can have this design to scan. I'm just, I'm just throwing out random ideas kind of fun? 

34:12 - Liz Toombs (Guest)
I'd never thought about that. But no, that question is not offensive at all. You have to understand sorority world, especially with rush talk and all of that taking off the past couple years. Social media is just so huge and so more and more we are asked to create a photographable moment or an instagramable moment, and so there are walls with neon lights. You know brick walls, neon lights. We've done flower walls where they can have that as a backdrop. You know all those types of things. Exactly what you're describing, what you see all over Pinterest and social media. We do create that and it's fun. It looks great in the space, but then all the women, of course, can line up and then get their selfies and get all their photos. So you're right on point with that. 

34:51 - Dan (Host)
Okay, yeah, I mean, like I said with the qr thing, just put that in the bottom corner and say this space designed by pdr interiors, and you know, check us out if you know looking for ops. I don't just goofy stuff like that right to help you build your brand organically, because you know you're getting the, the traction, or the, the photos that are taken in the space that you created. 

35:12 - Liz Toombs (Guest)
so yeah, no, I love that. Thanks for the idea. 

35:17 - Marcus (Host)
Anyways, yeah, I don't know we just started working with qr code stands, been organizing all of it. 

35:21 - Liz Toombs (Guest)
We use it on the brain. 

35:23 - Marcus (Host)
I know it's. That's why it's up there. We do with projects like we can Then go into a room, scan the qr code and there's a checklist of items that need to be done within that room or in the property. So just is a way for us to communicate with the foreman on site. I'll send the office trying to keep things going. 

35:40 - Dan (Host)
So I love that. Yeah, just yeah, just almost like a live document or a live thing and you can leave your comments like, hey, I was trying to replace the toilet and still need a flange or something random like that, right, or need, still need light switches or need the outlet covers installed, and they go and scan it, check it off, and then that's removed from the list and then you only have whatever's left. 

35:59 - Liz Toombs (Guest)
so yeah, what a great way to streamline communication, because so much of that could just fall off and, and you know, fall off the list or not be known, and where the status of things are. 

36:09 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, yeah, no, definitely in the ordering part, which I'm sure you have. The communication, like ordering everything you need lights, furniture, furnishing, fixtures, all that stuff has to be communicated well. So we're just trying to get that kind of built up on the company. 

36:25 - Liz Toombs (Guest)
Yeah, that makes sense. 

36:27 - Marcus (Host)
Organizing makes it better. 

36:28 - Liz Toombs (Guest)
Yes, I agreed. 

36:29 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, but I know we were on the Instagram thing. Is there a way for people to contact you if they have questions or want to reach out to you? What's the best way for them to contact you? 

36:41 - Liz Toombs (Guest)
Yeah, on the website, which is pdr dash interiors dot com, there's a contact us form or we're on Instagram and tick tock you can message. Either way, it all comes through my social media person and to the teams. That's the best way to get a hold of us. 

36:58 - Marcus (Host)
Awesome, and Dan will make sure to put those in the show notes so that is clickable for people that want to reach out to you. Dan was also looking at pictures beforehand that he was going to put in, so if we can add that into the show notes as well so people can get a visual of kind of the projects that you're working on. 

37:13 - Liz Toombs (Guest)
Yeah, that's great, thank you. 

37:14 - Marcus (Host)
Big or small, which is very cool to see that you can adapt to both. 

37:18 - Liz Toombs (Guest)
Yeah, well, you know, it's just not common that everyone can just spend gobs of money at once and necessarily do an entire space. So a lot of times people work room by room or a couple of spaces at a time, just like in residential homes, which we still have a great crop of repeat customers that we work with residentially. It's just most of our work is sorority right now. 

37:38 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah, no, that's cool. It is such a unique market this is. I mean, I would have never thought that there was an avenue with this, but it's super cool that it is. And are you going to go into fraternity as well, or are you sticking justice sorority right now? 

37:53 - Liz Toombs (Guest)
Because as a guy I'm imagining they need help. Yes, yeah, well, you know they get really good before and after shots because of what can happen. But, yes, we have worked with men's groups before they're open to it. A lot of times they don't want all of those finishing touches that the women want, which is why the women tend to hire us, because they want that complete overall look. But yes, yeah, working with men's groups, we're happy to do that also. 

38:20 - Dan (Host)
I'm sure the fraternity is the after, and then the after is even worse than the before sometimes. 

38:26 - Liz Toombs (Guest)
I pretend like I leave the facility and nothing changes Everything where I left it. They clean everything and it stays beautiful. I know. 

38:35 - Dan (Host)
Even if you had every thought or every process covered like, okay, this is where you grab paper towel or garbage bags and everything is simple, it still will get pushed to the wayside, I would assume. I mean, I don't know. 

38:48 - Liz Toombs (Guest)
Well, it's just hard. You have to think. You're turning over classes of students every so often, and so what we find is like if you were a student in the former facility. When you get this new update, you appreciate it so much and you really value it. And not to say that it's not valued. If you're a new incoming student, once it's already new, but you don't know what the history is and what it used to be, and so sometimes there's a little bit less appreciation because there isn't the understanding of that transformation. And so that's why these projects are just so different, because, to your point, they're technically commercial spaces, but I'm actually brought in to make them feel as residential as possible, because it has to be homey, it has to support study. The talk around mental health is so huge in these spaces now, and we're a big part of helping create that, and so there's just a lot of nuances that make the job really interesting. 

39:42 - Dan (Host)
The way you explain that helped me realize why being a middle child is awesome. You get to hand me downs and then sometimes you get the new stuff, so you appreciate it that much more. And my wife and even my youngest daughter make fun of me for how often I clean my shoes to keep them looking as clean as possible. It's just one little thing, but I spent my hard earned money on it way back when I was 12, 13, 14 years old and I had to know to take care of it because I was the one providing it for myself, not parents or whoever else. So I think there's more of an appreciation there as a middle child I don't know, maybe I mean it makes sense, there's pride in your sense of ownership, totally. 

40:22
Right, no, I'm just joking. Cool. That's interesting about the mental health part of it because I know I have a daughter who's just finishing up her fourth year in college and there's a lot of, a lot of stuff that her and I discuss regarding that with some of her classmates and even you know, kids that she didn't know too well there that are struggling with you know what's going on and the life and I think making it more comfortable and appealing to them I think is a huge like was it serotonin boost when they get in the right moods. 

40:56 - Marcus (Host)
So yeah, yeah it's important like we're trying to get into the multifamily space and I go back to my college days and I spent a semester in the dorms and I got out because I was like this is, it's just white walls in a flat panel door. 

41:09 - Dan (Host)
So it's a room covered it was. 

41:12 - Marcus (Host)
It was weird. And as we go in and get into the multifamily space, that's one thing that I want to do. I know it's a rental, but it's your home and we need to make it feel like a home. You need to be comfortable, you have to want to be here, because if you want to be here, you want to take care of it. So it's a big, it's a big thing for me as we get into that space and that's super cool that you're already mindful of that and that's, I mean, your. Your big mission there is to make it homey for them while they're away at college. 

41:39 - Liz Toombs (Guest)
So it really is. I know it's easy to just dismiss this of oh that's great, you get to make pretty houses for, you know, sorority girls. But there's a lot more to it, and especially having experienced this industry in 2020. I just see the depths that go with it and at the same time, I was teaching college students a class on soft skills at the time and I watched going from in person with my students to being on zoom with them and just the way that things changed in the conversations I had with them. So I feel this very deeply. 

42:10 - Marcus (Host)
Yeah Well, keep going on the mission. It sounds like it's going well and I'm looking forward to seeing some good things coming in the future for you. 

42:17 - Liz Toombs (Guest)
Yes, thank you. I really enjoyed talking with you all, yeah thank you for being here. 

42:21 - Dan (Host)
Yes as well, and thanks for giving us the time. 

42:22 - Marcus (Host)
That was very cool. Yeah, I got to learn something new today. 

42:25 - Liz Toombs (Guest)
Yeah, there you go. 

42:27 - Marcus (Host)
And it's only 10. We still have so much more time Well, awesome. Thank you for your time and enjoy the rest of your weekend and hopefully I'm sure you've got some decorating doing with Halloween Coming up. 

42:42 - Liz Toombs (Guest)
I don't get into Halloween, I like fall and. I like Christmas. 

42:44 - Marcus (Host)
that's kind of my big jam, so yeah, yeah well, cool, well, enjoy the rest of fall while there's I mean, no snow on the ground. 

42:53 - Liz Toombs (Guest)
Yes, you too. Yeah, and good luck with your dog. I hope everything comes out okay. 

42:59 - Marcus (Host)
Hi, thank you, thank you. 

43:01 - Liz Toombs (Guest)
All right, y'all have a great weekend. 

43:02 - Marcus (Host)
Bye, bye. Thank you too.