Increasing Net Operating Income: A Look at Utility Management for Multifamily Properties

Unlock the power of smart utility management with our guest Kevin from Multi Family Utility Solutions. Promise yourself this - by the end of this intriguing conversation, you'll have a comprehensive understanding of how to increase net operating income by strategically managing utilities. Not just that, you'll learn how to navigate the tricky waters of due diligence for multi-family investments. 

But we don't stop there. Ever wondered how to extract the maximum income from your properties? We discuss how understanding your investment goals and the property culture can guide you through this process. Together with Kevin, we discuss the pros and cons of offering cable services, the role of wireless providers, and how enhanced internet services can upgrade your property to a higher class. 

Now, let's talk about the future. We examine solar energy and how you can leverage it to maximize benefits, from rebates to incentives. We also take a deep look at the FCC's ruling on exclusive rights to property and the streaming vs. cable TV debate. Finally, we round off with a book recommendation that'll help you measure success in life and optimize progress. Don't miss out on this episode packed with insights on multifamily property ownership!

https://multifamilyutilitysolutions.com/

• 248) 930-4768
• Kevin@MultifamilyUtilitySolutions.com

Kevin's Book: https://changeyourthinkingigniteyourlife.com/
The Gap and The Gain: The High Achievers' Guide to Happiness, Confidence, and Success. Link to book: https://a.co/d/8CIGbTL

Transcript

Transcript generated by Podium.page

0:00:04 - Speaker 1
Welcome back everybody to the MVP real estate podcast season three episode seventeen We have Kevin here with multi family utility solutions. Thanks for coming back. This is your second time on. We're more in a formal setting the last time I was in the back of my truck, the mobile office. So now we're actually in the office Thanks for giving us the time again. 

0:00:27 - Speaker 2
Thanks for the invite back. I guess I didn't mess things up too bad the first time around. 

0:00:32 - Speaker 1
No. It was great. It was great. So before we dive into kind of what's new since you've been on the show last, give us the thirty second elevator pitch of of what services you do or what you offer. 

0:00:46 - Speaker 2
Yeah. We I mean, we basically work with multi family property owners. Whether it's mobile home communities or apartments, and we help them increase their net operating income through better management of their utilities. Lot of their utilities are often overlooked. They don't realize that they can get money from cable companies and Internet companies. In certain states, in certain markets, electric and gas is deregulated. They may have an opportunity to get a competitive bid you know, there's different ways to save money on trash removal and and and all those sorts of things. So that's that's how we can help them improve the NetApp operating income, which then turns into an increase in the asset value. 

0:01:29 - Speaker 1
Yep. Yeah. Those subscription things are big. Like, they will make or break deals. I was just listening to a podcast where This property had been listed. It was I think it was they said it was a sixteen or eighteen unit building, and they've been listed for over a hundred days. And people kept passing it up. And this one investor called. And the issue was when they did their numbers, to put out their their listing sheet. Yeah. They had some of their numbers wrong. So through due diligence, they actually found out that this is an incredible deal. And it was a lot of the subscriptions. Some of the leases were incorrect, but a lot of it was those subscription. I call them the subscriptions. The dumpster rentals, the leased equipment within the building, like, those type of things were all kind of messed up on their listing sheet. Okay. So after they called and got there and they're like, oh, this actually turns into a great deal, and they end up going through and buying it. So don't sleep on those subscriptions. 

0:02:30 - Speaker 2
Well, and I'll tell you one of the things is that a lot of people, our stuff isn't huge individually, but collectively, it it's material. And it doesn't get a lot of attention oftentimes through due diligence. Right? So due diligence is here's what we pay for electric, but nobody thinks, is this a what market is it in? Can we save money there? 

0:02:54 - Speaker 1
Yeah. 

0:02:54 - Speaker 2
So a lot of times, and we see this often, you know, I'll have people say, oh, we don't have a contract for our cable and Internet services. And they the the truth is that they probably do. And we found them more often than not because those companies didn't just get there. They didn't just walk onto your property and start stringing lines without somebody's permission, some without paper. And so depending on how old the community is, you know, sometimes in the in, you know, decades ago, that stuff didn't get recorded. And as property sell and as cable companies and Internet companies sell and things like that, it may not be included in the due diligence package but we find it more often than that, which is why we always tell people man engage with us as early as possible so that there's no surprises later. We'd rather, you know, look at something you end up not buying, then not look at something that you buy, and we can't help you 

0:03:53 - Speaker 1
-- 

0:03:53 - Speaker 2
Yep. -- like you thought we could 

0:03:56 - Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah. And that it is it's so important when you're going in, especially buying an asset asset class of such a magnitude. It's a high dollar amount that you're gonna buy to not go through those little little bits of information. Those things they're like the secondary cost that not a lot of investors go through to do. Because to me it was it's a a newer kind of philosophy way to look at it. You're not buying Internet. Like through you, you're buying kind of suitcase or a bundled package because you go into different industries. Correct? 

0:04:35 - Speaker 2
Well, yes and no. So we represent the property owner. We we work for you. We've got people who specialize in electric and so you're not really buying anything from us, we're helping you manage your utilities better to either realize expense savings or generate revenue. 

0:04:55 - Speaker 1
Yep. 

0:04:56 - Speaker 2
Okay. So and and it looks different in different markets. Right? So Ohio happens to be a deregulated market. Wisconsin not. So electric and gas is more of an opportunity in Ohio than it would be in Wisconsin or Colorado. Or or something like that. Cable TV and Internet really comes down to which market am I in? And where and and who are the providers and and how how competitive it is. So, like, right now, we're doing a ton of work in Dallas Fort Worth because it's very competitive, it's growing, and there's a lot of activity there and very little in Lake Idaho. You know? 

0:05:42 - Speaker 1
It's -- Yeah. -- 

0:05:43 - Speaker 2
you know. So 

0:05:45 - Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting because with our single family rentals, it is basically yep. Go out and get whatever service you want. You sign the contract. You pay the bill. I'm hands off. Right. But with multi family, you kinda have to offer services. So this is kind of a it's a realm that I would love to get into. And we're currently looking to get into. So this whole thing is kind of fascinating to me because I'm interested to see how old those contracts are? Because usually when you own a multifamily build building, you own it for a while. In with those subscriptions, I'm curious to see how when they signed the bill, was it a hundred a month per unit, and now it's jumped to one fifty? Which if you have a twenty unit building that fifty dollar a month through the years has added up. And those are small increment little up charges from your your service provider. And I'm wondering how crazy of a switch it would be when you buy the building and you go into the solutions you have, like, what you can do with those new contracts. Now you can kinda get competitive with the new pricing of a new service provider coming in. Do you find a lot of those situations where they're just old contracts that have annually gone up three percent over two decades. 

0:07:07 - Speaker 2
You you know what? You you touched in in that brief comment. You touched on so many things. So you you know, one of the things is the first thing we do when we talk to a a a owner is we try and determine what their goals are. Right? So you mentioned that a lot of people buying in a hold for a long period of time. And if they're trying to create generational wealth, a lot of times they will. We actually have a lot of clients, a lot of them who buy a maybe a b class property and try and reposition it, invest in the deferred maintenance and things like that. And bring it up to an a class property, and then they've got syndication money that they need to pay back in a certain period of time. So a lot of times, those are the folks that are gonna buy it, hold it for a brief period of time, few years, and then sell sell it off. The asset at higher higher value and then go and repeat that and keep making money that way. So it really comes down to, and that's one of the first things we we try and find out is what are your investment goals? Are you holding this? Because that could affect the type of agreement we would recommend for them. So and then the the other thing is that, like, you mentioned the single family, the resident pace for it. And and you were actually referencing what we call it bulk agreement, which is where you provide the service as an amenity to your residence. Yep. You don't have to do that though. You're you're not obligated to do that. And that's again where the choice comes in. And we try and find out what are your long term goals here. If your long term goals are to buy and hold this and you're in a competitive markets and you're maybe in an a class property or b that you're taking to an a. In those situations, bulk may might make more sense. If you've got a c class property that you're just trying to, you know, generate revenue, you may not want to put that in as an amenity because you may be camped on what you can charge for for rent and all those sorts of things. So so we really go through a process to help understand, and and somebody's gonna say, what do you recommend? And I'm gonna tell you every situation is different. We recommend what's right for our clients, and and that's really how we try and approach it. So Even you described the the residents paying for the in single family home. So, you know, I live outside of Cleveland, Ohio. And in Cleveland, Spectrum is the cable provider. 

0:09:43 - Speaker 1
Yep. 

0:09:43 - Speaker 2
And so they've got a a nonexclusive franchise to operate the city of Cleveland. What that does is it gives them access to the public easements, the public rights and ways. Right? So their cables go down there. If you're a homeowner there, and you want their service, you sign up, and you're allowing them by signing up for service to come on your property. Okay? Now let's say you're a multifamily property owner there and I'm a resident in your multifamily property. I don't own that property, so I can't give them permission to come on your property. So you're kind of the gatekeeper there. Yeah. 

0:10:20 - Speaker 1
And if 

0:10:20 - Speaker 2
you wanna enter into an agreement where you provide service as an amenity. That's called the bulk build agreement. And in that situation, you enter into a contract with them to pay for the service. But even if you're not paying for the service, you have to grant them access to be on your property, in your buildings to provide service to me, their customer. And that's more done on an access agreement or an exclusive marketing agreement is when you can generate revenue for you by simply allowing them onto the property and then you don't have that expense. But you're also not it as an amenity. So you have to you have to understand your your tenant base and understand is this Is this amenity that I'm gonna offer to them? First of all, important? And second of all, is it amenity that I can more than cover in my my rent. Right? 

0:11:21 - Speaker 1
Yeah. 

0:11:22 - Speaker 2
But if you're dumping an extra fifty bucks on your on your expense line per unit, can you get an extra seventy five dollars per per month per unit? To cover that cost and maybe make a little bit more or not. And that's when we help, you know, if you're a if you're a c class property, Probably not. That's gonna be a tough sell. Right? Yeah. Right? Because a lot of the folks there, you know, they have access to this thing called the connectivity. Look at I I I'm blanking on it, but there's a government subsidy that they can dip into if they're on any government assistance. 

0:12:02 - Speaker 1
Okay. So, like, a subject to a property? Or 

0:12:06 - Speaker 2
or even yeah. So if they're on, like, SSI, or 

0:12:09 - Speaker 1
-- 

0:12:09 - Speaker 2
Okay. -- get an answer or anything like that. Oh, I gotcha. If affordable connectivity program, they can then get money from the government to off set that. But if you got it if you're putting it into your lease, they can't then turn around and say, oh, give me the money anyhow because my lease includes it. So you may be asking them to pay seventy five dollars more for something that they're getting covered 

0:12:32 - Speaker 1
-- Yeah. -- 

0:12:33 - Speaker 2
government. So that that's why we gotta do just the analysis. Understand what's your property? What are your investment goals? And and what's going on? And and I I like to jump in. 

0:12:43 - Speaker 1
That's a very good point. I didn't even think of that side of it. Because I knew, like, with your building as the property owner, it seems and there's like this connotation where they just, like, buy the building and leave. But, like, you do create a culture within your building. Like, with your tenants and how you operate it. If it's clean or not, is there a park there? Is there a clubhouse? Like, all those things go into the culture of what you're creating and the culture of the people that live there. And I didn't even think about the the government subsidies and the benefits that way and how that might you could offer a service or amenity and think it's a goodwill to your customers when it's actually a deficit. To what you what your client base is. 

0:13:25 - Speaker 2
Right? You may and let's face it at the end of the day, the king of all metrics is occupancy. Right? Yes. So if we do anything that negatively impacts your occupancy, we can't make up for the dollars. We're generating you if you then drop ten percent in in in occupancy because of the change you made. 

0:13:48 - Speaker 1
So 

0:13:48 - Speaker 2
that's why we want we just wanna know everything about your, you know, your company, your portfolio, your investment goals, property, the market, things like that, 

0:13:58 - Speaker 1
to help 

0:13:58 - Speaker 2
make the best decision possible for for you. Yeah. You know, so so so that's really what it's all about. And, you know, if we can jump ahead to kinda like what's new lately, this whole bulk thing has gained momentum. More and more more and more properties are offering Internet as an amenity. The reason being that the providers prefer that So they are more actively selling it to owners. So the reason they do that is, you know, look, I may be making less per unit, but I got a hundred percent of the units covered. I'm not going out there all the time to hook up and disconnect units, so I'm saving on operational costs. I get to count a hundred percent of your units as customers, which helps me when I report my results to Wall Street and things like that. Right? So So there's a lot of benefits in it to them and they actually prefer it. They're sending one bill, not a hundred bills 

0:15:04 - Speaker 1
-- Yeah. -- 

0:15:05 - Speaker 2
you know, So there that's less operational cost. They probably are not gonna run into collections issues with larger companies, like, you know, like owners. There's a lot of advantage. So therefore, they are actively, you know, going to people and saying to owners saying, hey, why don't you do both? Why don't you offer it as an amenity? You can make money off of this. And in some cases, you can. In other cases, it's risky. So because you then have that liability for five years of being having to to pay for that service, Well, keep me wrong. In some cases, it's absolutely a great home run win. We see a lot of activity in Dallas Fort Worth with a class properties moving to this. But in other areas, it's not as as it doesn't make as much sense. 

0:15:58 - Speaker 1
Yeah. Man, that's crazy. And I wanted you had mentioned there's a way for the property owner to make money on top of these services that's on top of the rent that started collecting. And I wanna get into that one, but I don't wanna miss the the thing you said about gatekeeping. So basically, the lines go into the the easements for the city, and then the property owner would allow access in. Is that an aspect where you guys come in? And now you can pin Spectrum and AT and T are together now, aren't they? No. They're separate still. 

0:16:34 - Speaker 2
They're separate. So if 

0:16:34 - Speaker 1
you got two if you have a spectrum and an AT and T, you can grant both of them access. But would they now be competing with our customers or our tenants in terms of who gets hooked up to what unit? 

0:16:48 - Speaker 2
Yeah. They would you would be offering the residents a choice between those two. Chances are if they're in your on your property already and in your buildings, they had an agreement of some sort. Right? And and the the the your access agreements are typically ten years. So if your property is over ten years old, chances are it's in an auto renew, which means we can renew that for you and get compensation if you weren't getting compensation previously, even if you're not offering the service as a bulk service. So if you're not offering it as an amenity and you're just saying, look, residents let them choose what they want, we would talk to both AT and T and Spectrum and see if there was compensation available to you. Because sometimes especially in a competitive situation, while you can't really grant one the exclusive access to your property, if they're both already there, you can grant one exclusive marketing rights, where you're saying this is our provider of choice. When somebody new moves in, you say this is who we recommend, yes, this other one is available, but this is who we recommend. And then because of that, you would get compensation from them as a percentage of revenue. If you're exclusively marketing them, you may in some cases be able to get revenue from both of them if you do non exclusive marketing, but you gotta make sure that the the agreements don't conflict with each other. Yeah. You know? So so that and that again is just it's market dependent about what services they offer and where they are. And they're also more likely to if they're not there or if AT and T had DSL, but they they they can upgrade the fiber. You know, they're more likely to do that in larger properties just because of the return on the investment. Right? They're putting capital into your property. And the other thing to keep in mind is we can only do this with wired providers because wireless providers aren't using your property. They're using the public airways to deliver their signals. So I don't know if you've seen those those little Verizon and and yeah. Those cubes, the little things. Right? They're providing it over their signal for home Internet. We can't do anything about that because they're not using any part of your property. They're using the public airways to distribute that. So that's that's another thing a lot of people ask about. 

0:19:19 - Speaker 1
Yeah. I've been looking at those little Wi Fi boxes for the job site when we move. They wanna pull up the house. Aren't Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't make sense to pull an Internet for two months when we're there. So that's where those those little boxes were a little intriguing, but I just don't know how strong the signal is and because there's some houses that we flipped where we don't get cell service. So is that thing gonna be a complete waste? 

0:19:43 - Speaker 2
Yeah. Because they're using the same the the same thing your cell phone So Yeah. 

0:19:48 - Speaker 1
The same satellite I would figure out. 

0:19:49 - Speaker 2
Right. Or the yeah. The the same the same Wi Fi hotspots and everything. Yeah. 

0:19:54 - Speaker 1
So it becomes like a paperweight until we move and get signal. 

0:19:58 - Speaker 2
Or yeah. Somewhere else, but you could you could yeah. Exactly. 

0:20:03 - Speaker 1
Yeah. 

0:20:03 - Speaker 2
So but, you know, if you have limited needs for bandwidth because those things don't deliver anywhere near the bandwidth that a spectrum of the BT can. Right? And more and more, let's face. I don't know about you, but I don't have cable TV video anymore. I have streaming inter streaming video services. You know, that puts more and more of a heavy weight on, you know -- Yeah. -- usage. When I do a podcast, I turn I try and turn off my TV and close all my windows so that I can make sure that, you know, whatever I'm using for for Internet is dedicated to this. 

0:20:39 - Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah. There's a couple times when me and Dan are on just like an office days and on Google Hangouts, and my video just goes dark. Yeah. It's just my Internet has been used up and it's usually like a restart of the system and it kicks back in, but that's happened on multiple occasions. 

0:20:56 - Speaker 2
Right. Yep. So so there's I mean, there's there's revenue to be made. There's savings to be had. It's just every property is a little bit different. And you know, the big thing now is is all the the providers, AT and T, Spectrum, Comcast, they all want let's bulk. Let's bulk. Let's bulk. Right? And In in some cases, absolutely, it's a great thing, but it's gonna be an amenity. You should look at that the same way. You should look at somebody who comes to you and says, hey, you've got a ten unit building. Let's put in this Olympic size swimming pool as an amenity and your property's in Alaska. Right? That doesn't probably make sense. Right? That's probably not an amenity that you can recoup the the cost of you know, from your rent. Right? So, hey, rent just went up a hundred bucks. But, hey, I know we're in Alaska. But, man, we got this Olympic sized swimming pool outside. Right? You know, which doubles as an ice rink most of the time. So, you know, so so you you that's what you gotta do. You gotta understand your tenant base gotta understand their situation. You gotta understand is that amenity going to help me fill units or not in in Or is it gonna help me 

0:22:08 - Speaker 1
to where my end game is? Because there's been a couple scenarios that I've either talk to investors or heard where they're trying to upgrade from a c class to a b class, and they need I mean, it sounds super weird, but they need their their their occupancy to go down. Because the only way to turn new tenants and turn new cultures to get new tenants and new culture in. Right. So sometimes I've heard stories of like crime rate being high. So they'll go and one of their expense items is a private security twenty four seven someone pearls the building. Yep. You're gonna eventually get the tenants that were causing crime to not wanna live in a secured building, so they leave. So your occupancy goes down, but that opens up the opportunity to switch to a different class where you can start break and different tenants, different lifestyles, like those type of things. And this might be one of those where if you wanna offer this as a service and you want this to be the culture of your building, but you just bought this and it was a a c or d class building. Maybe setting up the system where this is an amenity, your your occupancy is gonna go down in the short term. But if you look at your asset class of the overall it will be a a net positive at the end of the day. 

0:23:29 - Speaker 2
Yeah. And and, Mark, because I will give the cable companies, the Internet companies a great that they understand this and they also understand leases. Right? So if you wanna, you know, wanna provide this as amenity and they're coming to you and saying, okay, it's Marcus, it's fifty dollars more per unit per month. Boom, right like that. You don't have the ability to put that into a lease for until that lease expires. They do what's called a one year ramp period understanding that in a twelve year your or twelve month period, you'll go through all your leases and renew them. Yeah. So you can recoup that. So they may say, look, you got a hundred and twenty units. Ten of them in the first month, we're gonna assume our new leases, and we'll just provide service to those ten. And then ten more and ten more. So you're not taking a huge hit. So it's at least because that was obviously an impact. Right? If you said, 

0:24:23 - Speaker 1
yeah. 

0:24:24 - Speaker 2
Well, I've gotta pay for a hundred and twenty of them and I can't raise the rent on a hundred and ten of them who's gonna wanna do that. But if you can do it as they renew leases, and and and go in. So they do make it they understand your business on on that level. And have overcome that and which is a great thing. So that makes that 

0:24:46 - Speaker 1
makes a 

0:24:46 - Speaker 2
whole that's another favorable thing for doing bulk is the fact that you don't have to, like, absorb that cost. You can, you know, kind of roll it in and ramp. Yeah. 

0:24:58 - Speaker 1
And not have to shoulder all the weight of the the financial jump on that one. Which is super cool because you don't hear that often, not to rag on the cable companies. But they often don't work with customers very well. Like, their system is their system and that's what they do and they're gonna do it that way because that's how they've done it. And that's the feel I've gotten with a lot of the cable companies. Yeah. But you being in it, you know what buttons to push and where how the leases are drawn up. 

0:25:27 - Speaker 2
Right. 

0:25:28 - Speaker 1
And the reason the reason I thought of, like, the old contracts and those three percent annual increases is because when I was in sales, It was for facility services, so uniforms and floor mats and soaps. Okay. I knew other companies' contracts more than I knew ours. Because I needed to find the loopholes in there. Alright. You've signed up with this company for ten years now. Your original price is not what you're paying right now. Do you have a new invoice? And then you can compare and contrast, like, when you started doing this now. And that was your end to get a new a new client out of that that business or whatever we are selling to. 

0:26:06 - Speaker 2
And and that's one of the things we do. So we help if if we decide that an exclusive marketing agreement is is is preferable and right for that property will help negotiate. And our commission is tied to we work on commission only. So our revenue is tied to the resident or the owner's revenue. Right? So the more we get you, the more we get it's a percentage. Right? 

0:26:30 - Speaker 1
Yeah. 

0:26:31 - Speaker 2
So that's that's really the the goal is to get you as much in the one time fee for signing the agreement, but then also in the percentage that they share their revenue. Likewise, if you do a bulk, we wanna get you a one time fee We also wanna help you get the lowest rate possible. Right? But also the percentage increase and, you know, the annual increase and when does it start down the road, you know. So when you look at all those things, and we did one the other day where we got the the the annual percentage rate increase to drop up one percent And over the five year period of time, it had a measurable impact Yeah. On the amount of money that they had to pay over the term of that five year year agreement. 

0:27:24 - Speaker 1
Yeah. And you're seeing the apps come out now. This is on, like, the personal side. There's apps coming out that go in, I guess, they must go into your bank account and see the subscription payments, and then it'll list out, alright, you have these subscriptions. You can, like, click them and cancel them in instantly. The company actually goes back and cancels your contract. 

0:27:44 - Speaker 2
Right. 

0:27:44 - Speaker 1
And that's what I keep picturing it as an analogy where you go through. You're that you're that app that goes through everything with the fine tooth comb and starts canceling subscriptions and helping where you can. To clean up your finances -- 

0:27:59 - Speaker 2
Yeah. -- as it's related to utilities. Yes. Yeah. And and a lot of it comes down to, you know, honestly, Like, if we we didn't talk too much about electric and gas, but it it comes down to leverage as well. Right? It comes down to how big is the property? How many other properties do you have? How competitive is the marketplace, things like that. So, I mean, electric we were it's based on usage. Right? So so how much how much are you using? How much are you paying for? If you have a twenty unit property, you have maybe an office, but maybe no laundry room or the lot laundries in the units. There's no pool. There's no common areas. There's know, no workout facility. You're not using that much. If you have a four hundred unit property and you have multiple pools and you have a workout facility in a community room and, you know, maybe the laundry is in laundry rooms, the way you're paying for the electric and all that, not the units. You know, there's a there's a much greater opportunity because the electric companies in the competitive markets are gonna look at that and say, oh, well, yeah, there's there's a lot of usage here. Interest in this, I'll give you a a preferred rate, whereas if they look at the other one and be like, that's really not worth it. Right? Yeah. So so there's so many variables that go into it. And and and that's the that's the one one question I hate. You didn't ask thank you for not asking you to well, what can you do for me? What how much can you how much can I I make on this? Right? Or how much can I save? Because every single one is different. Just like when you go out to look at a property to buy, there's no two that are exactly a lot. Right. There's no two that you can say, oh, well, this one is from you know, this one is worth the same. It's not like that, and ours is the same. There's no two properties that are alike. Where's the size of the property? What's the class of the property? How old is the property? What's the market? What market is it in? And all those things have to be evaluated. What are your investment goals are you looking to flip it or are you looking to hold it? You know? And all those things come up too, and that helps us paint the picture of what the strategy should be. 

0:30:14 - Speaker 1
Yeah. That's cool. It's a very cool niche area that doesn't get a lot of focus, but it is super important. And it's it's changing because, like, right now, I'm getting solar panels on on my roof, on my personal. And that was strictly because the municipality pays kilowatt for kilowatts. So if I don't use it, it goes back and I get it kicked back from the city. Looks like that's super great for me. The install is quote unquote free -- Yep. -- or no money down, I guess, they would call it Right. Is that somewhere where you guys are dealing with more and more? Because that's becoming more and more popular. So how does that go into the service providers with energy, electric, specifically, in rates and, I guess, leverage or buying power with that. 

0:31:06 - Speaker 2
Yeah. So we have looked into solar. We've we've got a a partner who goes solar like so. So we specialize in the cable and the Internet stuff. I've got a broker who does the electric and the gas. I've got another guy who does the trash analysis. 

0:31:20 - Speaker 1
So there's actually electric and a gas broker. 

0:31:23 - Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. 

0:31:24 - Speaker 1
That's awesome. 

0:31:25 - Speaker 2
So, I mean, they're they're they're they're kind of a a referral partner of ours. So we can say aged, but we can, you know, we we we know him and and he does all the work for us. And then similarly, there's a a guy we have that's an expert on solar, and he knows you know, what to do, and he's looked at it. What he told me is, look, he goes, the absolute best time to consider solar is before you buy the property so you can put the cost to put the solar in in the purchase price. As opposed to going back to investors after the fact and asking for more money. 

0:32:01 - Speaker 1
Yeah. 

0:32:01 - Speaker 2
If it's part of your your plan, right, your your your your presentation and saying, hey, and we're gonna go and this one's gonna include solar and we're gonna do that. So so what we do is we catch a lot of people though, and it depend that depends on the market too. Some markets are better for solar. Yeah. There's more there's more rebates, there's depending on who the electric company is and whether they're buying services back and things like that. So -- Yeah. 

0:32:27 - Speaker 1
-- 

0:32:28 - Speaker 2
you know, well, yeah, we've got a guy who specializes in that. So we're we're you know, we wanna be there for all the utility needs, but we recognize that for us to be the subject matter in what we do. We want other people who are the subject matter expert in what they And so we work as kind of a almost like a co op, if you will, of of of companies that represent utility solutions. 

0:32:56 - Speaker 1
Yeah. 

0:32:56 - Speaker 2
Yeah. Solar is definitely something to look at. But again, I would recommend that if anybody's really seriously interested in solar, they they kinda look at it before they they do the the final, you know, the purchase. 

0:33:10 - Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah. That would be a a really good idea. But that comes with obviously, planning. You guys would get involved before like, during the due diligence of, like, hey, we're gonna build this bill or we're gonna buy this building. These are the numbers we're looking at. These are the contracts that were given. And sometimes, I mean, you hope that the previous building owner has those contracts or can able able to find them somewhere. Right. Because we had just gone through and we'd organized our list of, like, thirteen or fourteen things that we look for in when we're looking at these multifamily properties of our due diligence, so you'd have to give us these thirteen things or fourteen things And one of those would would be the utility contracts. And -- Right. -- and what has been paid the last year so that we know that your numbers are actually your numbers. Right? So Yep. Yeah. It is a it's an important field. And was was that gas and electric? Was that with you last time you were on the show, or was that something that was recently? Yeah. 

0:34:13 - Speaker 2
We I'll be honest with you, if you you gotta have the right circumstances. So Cable and Internet is everywhere and almost so so certain markets are deregulated for electric and gas. And they're far fewer than cable, which is available everywhere. Cable and Internet is available everywhere. We can't necessarily do deals everywhere because depends on the provider. Let's say you're out in the very rural area and there's only one provider and they're like, hey, take it or leave it. You know, we run into that sometimes. But if you're in a major metro where there's multiple providers and they're competing for service and things like that, you know, they're we can do that. But the deals we're gonna get in Dallas Fort Worth, they're probably different than the deals we're gonna get in, you know, Philadelphia or, you know, Cleveland or Chicago. 

0:35:03 - Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. It's so you're located in Ohio Right. How do you like, I'm just trying to think of your side of the business. You would contact a building owner Like, it's usually cold calling, I would assume, or some referrals. 

0:35:24 - Speaker 2
We get a ton of referrals, which I take is a testament that we're we're really good at treating our clients pretty well because we get referrals a lot. I mean, we do market. We do a newsletter. We to post on, you know, obviously, when this podcast comes out, we're gonna promote the heck out of it like you are and and try and get people that way. You know? So we we do a combination of of of marketing and with, you know, email marketing. You know, I'm always on doing some stuff on LinkedIn and and so any way we can really. Yeah. We prefer 

0:36:01 - Speaker 1
it's a testament that you're doing so well because getting into the multifamily space is a tough nut to crack. Yeah. 

0:36:08 - Speaker 2
Because it took a while. 

0:36:09 - Speaker 1
There's less there's less of them. There's less owners Like, they they usually buy and hold for a while, so it's not like they're turning every five years, four years. Like a single family home, there's there's just a bunch of them. 

0:36:24 - Speaker 2
Yeah. You you surprised us with syndication and and, you know, in the last few years, syndication and you know, buying and repositioning and then refinancing and and and either, you know, reselling has has become more popular than than I think it used to be. But you're right. There there's there's only but but I think about it. The whole US, we can do business in the whole US. Yeah. Think of how many apartments there are. Right? 

0:36:54 - Speaker 1
Yeah. 

0:36:55 - Speaker 2
I mean, so we've got a ton of opportunity out there and 

0:36:59 - Speaker 1
It's usually finding the person you need to talk to. 

0:37:02 - Speaker 2
That that tends to be the biggest challenge. Right? 

0:37:05 - Speaker 1
Yeah. Yep. So it's it's a good thing that you got a system set up with with how you communicate and go out. And get a hold of these people because that's what we're, like, on step one of doing that, meeting with brokers -- Yeah. -- like commercial brokers because where we live in the residential space, we don't know many commercial brokers that have the connections with the person who's own this multifamily And then we kinda cut ourselves off too because we're trying to stay local. Where you can go the whole US, we are, like, trying to stay within maybe an hour of where we're all located. 

0:37:41 - Speaker 2
Right? 

0:37:42 - Speaker 1
So that cuts down a lot. So 

0:37:44 - Speaker 2
yeah. Well, if you're trying to, you know, manage, self manage, then that you have to be on 

0:37:50 - Speaker 1
a list. 

0:37:51 - Speaker 2
We don't. I mean, we can we can literally do deals via email, Zoom, and or phone anywhere. 

0:37:59 - Speaker 1
Yeah. And do you find contracts changing often from, like, one day you're working in in Ohio for an Ohio customer? Down the street, let's say. And then the next one's in California, and then the next one's in Texas. 

0:38:12 - Speaker 2
Oh, yeah. The world. 

0:38:13 - Speaker 1
Do you yeah. I'm sure the contracts are widely different. 

0:38:17 - Speaker 2
Actually, if you're using, like, all the spectrum contracts are pretty much the same across all spectrum regardless of whether it's Columbus or or or Charlotte or Fort Worth or LA. Right? Those are all the same 

0:38:34 - Speaker 1
-- Yes. -- 

0:38:34 - Speaker 2
Spectrum does the same. Comcast does the same. AT and T does the same. And we tend to lean towards doing business with the incumbents that are already there because they've already invested the capital on your property. Right? 

0:38:52 - Speaker 1
Yeah. 

0:38:53 - Speaker 2
So if you try and bring somebody new in, first of all, you're disrupting your customers because, you know, they may have to get into their units or they may be not able then to continue to have their existing service provider, which maybe they're comfortable with and these new people that are bringing infrastructure in, that cost goes to their return on investment and therefore they have less left to give you the owner. Yeah. Right? So if if if you've got a hundred unit property and the incumbents already in there and they don't have to invest anything, but the new provider has to drop a hundred k that hundred k is part of their return on investment or, you know, analysis. And so we say, okay, what can you pay the owner? To, you know, to to be on the property for exclusive marketing rights or something like that, they're gonna have less than the incumbent hats. 

0:39:54 - Speaker 1
Yeah. 

0:39:55 - Speaker 2
So in that case, you know, we plus these incumbents oftentimes are large companies. Right? Highly unlikely that Comcast Spectrum or AT and T ceases to exist in the next couple of years. Right? 

0:40:09 - Speaker 1
Yeah. I 

0:40:10 - Speaker 2
mean, they're not gonna go away. They they they stay on the cutting edge or at least near the cutting edge of technology. So you know that while you have a contract with them, they're gonna continue to provide top notch services. They're also larger and well, you know, they they have some service problems occasionally here. So four stores, well, I waited twenty hours for the cable guy or whatever, you know, You don't hear those as much as you used to. You know, those things that stuck in your mind from years ago tend to stick in your mind. Right? Yeah, look at it most recently. I call this the airline analogy. Right? So when I lived in Atlanta, I you flew Delta because Delta was the primary provider down there. And and when you were looking to go somewhere, they went more places. And so you know, eight out of ten times, you'd be flying delta. What that means is they have a, you know, four times the chance of screwing up. 

0:41:09 - Speaker 1
Yeah. 

0:41:10 - Speaker 2
Then somebody else does because you use them, your Internet, your TV, or in your house, twenty four seven, Right? 

0:41:17 - Speaker 1
Yeah. 

0:41:17 - Speaker 2
There's you know, it it's hard to be perfect twenty four seven. 

0:41:21 - Speaker 1
Yep. 

0:41:22 - Speaker 2
Oh, even though you may hear some stories about bad stories, they still have the local resources available and lots of them that so that if there's something does go wrong, they've got the resources to fix it more than maybe some one of these independent guys who maybe doesn't have as many local resources. So there's some reasons. And again, I just I point these out when we when we talk to an owner and say, look, here's some of the advantages going here. Here's some of the advantages going here. Ultimately, it's their decision. I never say, oh, no, you know. I mean, we'll do whatever they want, but we try and give them as much information so they can make the most well informed decision possible to achieve their business goals. 

0:42:08 - Speaker 1
Yeah. And I I do like that you brought up that You gotta wait twenty hours for the the tech to get in. Yeah. That that has not been my personal experience. I've heard the horror stories like what you're saying. My I work with I probably shouldn't bash the company. You'll probably know who they are. But the only qualm that I have with them is that their Internet provider in their mobile like, they are two separate companies. 

0:42:35 - Speaker 2
Yeah. 

0:42:35 - Speaker 1
So when I call the Internet side and I wanna deal with some thing. They're like, oh, I gotta transfer you to five other people. 

0:42:41 - Speaker 2
Right. 

0:42:42 - Speaker 1
And I just wish they would fix that. That's, like, the only Yeah. Pickup. 

0:42:47 - Speaker 2
It it's a challenge. And and similar to that, you know, we represent owners and we do these contracts form. But if they are a business services customer and have service just for their building and business class service for their office, that's also a different group. That we deal with. So, you know, again, it's almost like us. We have specialists in each area because it's different enough that you need to have subject matter experts working on those things. It's it it can be frustrating for the the customer certainly, but I'm not sure there's a a a better way yet. 

0:43:32 - Speaker 1
Yeah. I think that's just gotta come from from them upgrading. 

0:43:36 - Speaker 2
Yeah. 

0:43:36 - Speaker 1
But I'm working on on their internal systems. So Yeah. And I tell them that we do. And I I feel bad because, like, I'm super frustrated. I know it's not your you didn't create this. Like, as I'm talking to customer service, you didn't set the system up. Not mad at you. It's just frustrating. 

0:43:53 - Speaker 2
Right? Yeah. It is. Absolutely. 

0:43:56 - Speaker 1
Hopefully, they just keep integrating and keep getting better. So fingers crossed on that. 

0:44:00 - Speaker 2
And how far they've come. Right? 

0:44:02 - Speaker 1
Yeah. 

0:44:03 - Speaker 2
And and okay. So, you know, I'll I'll give a shameless plug. I I get no commissions on this or whatever, but I've really gotten into reading And there's a book called the gap in the game. And I don't know if you've heard about it. 

0:44:15 - Speaker 1
The gap in the game? Yeah. Okay. 

0:44:17 - Speaker 2
That's just the life book. Right? I've really gotten into life books ever since I wrote my life book, I now compare it against other 

0:44:23 - Speaker 1
You didn't even plug your own book. Well, I 

0:44:25 - Speaker 2
guess what kind of back ended it a little bit. 

0:44:28 - Speaker 1
So What alright. What's the name of your book? We'll put that in the show notes. 

0:44:31 - Speaker 2
Mine is change your thinking, ignite your life. And it came about in my recovery from alcoholism, Right? So I would sponsor other guys and I would give them advice and they'd be like, wow. That's great advice. Wow. That's great advice. Wow. That's great advice. And so from that, some of the people that weren't in in AA would ask me things and I'd give them advice. And so I started getting all these these feedback and they're like, wow, you should write a book. I should write a book. And so I did. So change your thing. 

0:44:59 - Speaker 1
Did you ever think as a kid that you would write a book? 

0:45:02 - Speaker 2
No. I didn't even like to read. I was talking to somebody yesterday. We had to read gauntlet the wind in high school. I I didn't even make it through the cliff notes. 

0:45:11 - Speaker 1
Oh, yeah. That was a spark note for me too. 

0:45:13 - Speaker 2
Oh, man. I didn't even make it through the cliff notes. I was like, is there a cliff notes version of the cliff notes? I'm like, this is ridiculous. Which I 

0:45:19 - Speaker 1
think they've come up with now. Don't know what they call it, but with chat, GPT, I'm sure they figured out some way to make 

0:45:26 - Speaker 2
it happen. So I was like, oh, no. I'm I'm I'm out. So well, yeah. But, anyway, the the gap in the game. Right? So real brief on this. I know we're we're going along here, but it's all about if you're So life is here, right, and you're here in your life. And so many people measure themselves against the gap. I wanna be here. I'm falling short. I wanna be here. I'm falling short. Not enough people measure themselves against the game, which is look backwards to where you were. Yeah. How much progress you've made? Don't rest on that. Keep going. But don't forget about all the all the game you've made. And if you live in the game, you're gonna be happier, more productive, and make more progress than if you live in the gap, which is making you feel like you're underachieve. And it's just a great book. I I I don't I don't even know I think I've let somebody borrow my copy of it, and I don't even have a rabbit here. I'm making sure who wrote it, but it it was it was just an awesome read. 

0:46:27 - Speaker 1
Yeah. So I know I'm feeling that that book gave you an do I I I know that feeling that that book gave you an I'm I'm gonna read that book because I'm guilty of that one. Very, very hard guilty of that one. But that book for me was the subtle art. I lent that out to somebody to read and I don't know where it's at right now, but that was that impactful book that, like, helped my mindset switch from you know, a big mindset switch from w two to self employed. 

0:46:56 - Speaker 2
Yeah. You know that? Yeah. I read that book as well. I I actually have it on my bookshelf. So yeah. 

0:47:00 - Speaker 1
Yeah. That was a funny one. That was a great 

0:47:02 - Speaker 2
crazy. Ever since I've I've freed up more time, you know, as we were talking about earlier, I don't golf anymore. Drink anymore. I've got more time. I'm reading more and doing more for business and it's just so fulfilling. I've read so many books 

0:47:17 - Speaker 1
Yeah. One 

0:47:17 - Speaker 2
one of them written written right now is this by a guy named David Goggins. He's an ex oh, yeah. Maybe can't 

0:47:23 - Speaker 1
Can't break oh my god. Can't break me? 

0:47:26 - Speaker 2
Can't hurt me. Oh, can't hurt me? What? A great bloke man. 

0:47:29 - Speaker 1
This 

0:47:30 - Speaker 2
guy overcame stuff that makes us all, like, anytime I wanna start crying about what I'm dealing with, like, Are you kidding me? Yeah. This guy did, you know. 

0:47:38 - Speaker 1
Yeah. He does buds every is it every year, every two years? Just So he knows he'll be way 

0:47:44 - Speaker 2
through, but some of the and and he did it with a a, you know, problem with his heart for all that stuff that he did is amazing. 

0:47:51 - Speaker 1
Yeah. No. He's a he's a bad man. That's for 

0:47:54 - Speaker 2
sure. Yeah. 

0:47:55 - Speaker 1
He is. 

0:47:56 - Speaker 2
Definitely. Definitely. 

0:47:57 - Speaker 1
There's there's no brakes on his car. Yes. Cold gas pedal. Twenty four seven. It's funny. He goes on on Joe Rogen whether you like him or not, but you listen to Goins on Rogen when he can get a little unfiltered. Okay. 

0:48:11 - Speaker 2
And he 

0:48:11 - Speaker 1
lets it fly. 

0:48:12 - Speaker 2
That's -- Yeah. 

0:48:12 - Speaker 1
-- that's funny. 

0:48:13 - Speaker 2
Oh, even in the book, he he does. It's funny. Yeah. I have to check that out. But, yeah, it's it's great. But and there's there's plenty more of, you know, we can sit here and talk books all day since I, you know, but 

0:48:24 - Speaker 1
Yeah. And we'll link those two to the the show notes because well, one, I'm gonna get yours and then I wanna get live in the game? Was that the title? 

0:48:34 - Speaker 2
Get the gap in the game. 

0:48:36 - Speaker 1
The gap in the game. So I'll get that one because I'm so guilty of that. Yeah. But before we go, I wanted to touch on kind of like the new and upcoming things that are either coming into the industry. Is there anything like that you get whispers of change or what's around the corner of where things are going? 

0:48:56 - Speaker 2
Well, I mean, technology is going to continue to advance and and, you know, people often say, well, what happens as things change so much? Do I really want to enter into a five or ten year agreement or anything like that? And all I can say is if you look back, you wouldn't have regretted doing this five or ten years ago. Right? These companies are are making progress. They wanna stay competitive. That's one of the reasons we do we recommend doing agreements with larger companies, more established companies because if there's new technology that's gonna come, they're gonna bring it along. You know, with with them. And and and help you make sure your residents aren't leaving because you don't have the most recent technology. I mean, you think it's gonna go it's gonna probably go wireless, the integration of of phones and Internet and video and all that kind of stuff. So, I mean, that's that's kind of stuff we we're we're seeing. And then, you know, the this bulk thing is is kind of a trend that's that's moving along. You know, the FCC did pass a ruling last February, February of twenty twenty two, which basically said you can't give anybody the exclusive rights to your property. So in other words, you can exclusively market for somebody but you can't let somebody buy the exclusive rights so that they're the only provider and you don't give them choice. So the FCC, the government wants choice to be available. They want people to connect to the Internet because of this, you know, affordable affordable connectivity program they're trying to make sure it's not a, you know, anomaly of 

0:50:31 - Speaker 1
of what's going on there. 

0:50:32 - Speaker 2
So Yeah. So so, I mean, in in the the know, people are like, well, you know, video services, nobody really has cable TV anymore. Well, some people still do, but they've even migrated that over to a streaming service in many cases. 

0:50:46 - Speaker 1
Yeah. So 

0:50:47 - Speaker 2
they're using broadband services. And, you know, that's that's the main thing is is broadband is still in the you know, near, you know, future. That's the pipeline. That's, you know, connectivity is is there. Yeah. You know, I don't I don't I don't feel bad. And if I was a multi family property owner, I decided these contracts, you know, the right one for my property. But I feel like we help people, you know, we help them generate revenue, increase asset value and we're not putting them into any contracts whatsoever. That is harmful to their their asset. 

0:51:26 - Speaker 1
Yeah. Because the only thought that I have and I haven't thought about it for very long, but the one thing that I would I don't know if it's wishful thinking is like an a la carte TV service. So, like, I only watch ten channels. 

0:51:42 - Speaker 2
Yeah. 

0:51:42 - Speaker 1
So I just get those ten channels, please, and not what Hallmark? I'm never gonna watch Hallmark. I don't need it on my channel selection. 

0:51:51 - Speaker 2
Right. 

0:51:52 - Speaker 1
But that wouldn't really affect the bigger bulk buying because I wouldn't be buying ten stations for each unit because they watch different channels than I watch. So it wouldn't really affect too much of the bulk buying in in the situation you're in with bigger buildings. 

0:52:09 - Speaker 2
It wouldn't you've seen more of that as like a company like Paramount has certain channels that they own, offering that streaming service 

0:52:17 - Speaker 1
and 

0:52:17 - Speaker 2
things like that. I can tell you why it doesn't work. First of all, operationally delivering that is we're not there yet to be able to offer every single person their own total a la carte thing. 

0:52:30 - Speaker 1
Yeah. 

0:52:31 - Speaker 2
Rationally, logistically, billing wise. And then here's the other thing. Right? So right now, ESPN for example, gets money paid to them from the providers for every home that they're in. 

0:52:48 - Speaker 1
Yeah. 

0:52:48 - Speaker 2
Okay. There's a per home fee. Now if I'm ESPN and all of a sudden, half of my revenue goes away. And half of my advertising revenue goes away because I am no longer in half the homes that I used to be in. My ability to provide the same product that I'm providing right now goes away because half of my revenue is gone. 

0:53:14 - Speaker 1
Yeah. 

0:53:15 - Speaker 2
And so the services ceased to be the services that we want them to be. Yep. Makes sense. 

0:53:22 - Speaker 1
Yeah. 

0:53:24 - Speaker 2
So that's another reason that they are packaged in the way that they are packaged. Yeah. They need a certain amount. So otherwise, instead of you know, you you would most likely end up because they'd have to charge their feet per household to maintain their product. And so you would ultimately probably end up paying about the same amount for just those a la carte channels as you would for the whole, you know, that you're paying now and you have access to fewer. So like you go into it, you know, you go into by, you know, a a carton of Pepsi. Right? Carton of Pepsi costs about the same as two or three that you buy in the in in the gas station. So because it's packaged, it's together, there's efficiency in distribution, and all those sorts of things. And so you get more even if you only want three, you get these others that you have access to at some point if you want them for about the same price. Yeah. So it's kinda like buying in bulk, you get a discount. 

0:54:32 - Speaker 1
Yeah. No. That's true. I just I'm trying to think, like, higher up. Yes. Like ESPN owned by ABC, and ABC is owned by whoever, and they all have 

0:54:43 - Speaker 2
is the 

0:54:43 - Speaker 1
tangled web of basically three people that own the TV networks. 

0:54:47 - Speaker 2
Mhmm. 

0:54:47 - Speaker 1
So, like, I'm thinking if you can scale back your gonna get your profit in one of your branches. It may just not be ESPN, but but I do see the logistic way of that being a nightmare. Because even now Verizon was the first one, they just started advertising, is it called my plan? So you can go in and pick what you want for your cell service, and that is groundbreaking in twenty twenty three. So we do have some we have some time to make up for for TV to kinda catch up and get and that's a lot more intricate than just a cell phone. I would believe -- Yeah. -- 

0:55:24 - Speaker 2
a cell phone. Honestly, some of the some of the more neat niche services would probably end up going away. Because we've asked a few people would would be able to to afford them or would want would choose them they may not have enough revenue to even operate anymore. 

0:55:43 - Speaker 1
Yeah. That's true. That would be a shakeup. 

0:55:45 - Speaker 2
Yeah. Big one. 

0:55:47 - Speaker 1
Big one. 

0:55:48 - Speaker 2
Yeah. 

0:55:49 - Speaker 1
So maybe my idea is a terrible idea. 

0:55:52 - Speaker 2
No. It's just not it's a time it it's an idea before it's time. 

0:55:57 - Speaker 1
There we go. Thanks for spreading that positive. You're you're good. 

0:56:01 - Speaker 2
Yeah. You're you're an evolutionary thinker. 

0:56:04 - Speaker 1
I appreciate that. Thank you. Yeah. Well, cool. We did go up on the hour, and we try to keep it to an hour, but 

0:56:11 - Speaker 2
I understand. Yeah. 

0:56:13 - Speaker 1
Man, that was awesome. I appreciate the the little tidbits and the nuggets information you came through and I'm excited to to come upon our first multi family and give you a call, we can actually get some work done together. 

0:56:26 - Speaker 2
I can't wait to show you what we can do for you, man. That would be awesome. Yeah. 

0:56:30 - Speaker 1
I think that'll make the third podcast even more because we can go over our numbers and we can share that as much as we legally can Yeah. We go through our problems and and what was fixed. Yep. So look for that Are you certain three of them? Soon. Yeah. 

0:56:47 - Speaker 2
Yep. Looking forward to it. 

0:56:48 - Speaker 1
Awesome. Well, enjoy your Friday. Hopefully, it's sunny over there in Cleveland. It's starting to be. Alright. There we go. Well, cool. Well, I appreciate your time, and we will talk very soon. 

0:57:03 - Speaker 2
Sounds great, Marcus. Have a great weekend. Appreciate the opportunity to come back for a a second visit. 

0:57:10 - Speaker 1
Yeah. It was fun. You'll be back again. 

0:57:14 - Speaker 2
I appreciate it. Thanks so much. 

0:57:15 - Speaker 1
And so See you. Thank you. 

0:57:16 - Speaker 2
Alright. Take care. 

Transcribed by https://podium.page