Strategic Real Estate Investing: Insights from Veteran Investor Charles Carillo

Few things can make your heart race faster than a whirlwind tour through the volatile world of real estate investment. When Charles, a veteran investor with roots in Connecticut, dropped by to share his extensive knowledge on the complexities of the market, we knew this was an episode not to be missed. Beginning from his father's investments in the golden era of the 80s to his current forays in sun-soaked Florida, Charles lays bare a world of high-stakes decisions, potential pitfalls, and, yes, the sweet scent of success.

We tackle everything from the nuances of managing C and D class properties to the art of tenant underwriting, a skill Charles honed under his father's tutelage. His insights into the importance of understanding local laws when investing in different areas are invaluable. Charles also boldly strips away the glamour often associated with A class properties, shedding light on their risks, while shedding light on the more stable, long-term returns offered by B class properties.

To round off our journey, Charles delves into the financing challenges faced when investing in commercial properties. The 2008-2009 real estate market storm was a turbulent period, but Charles navigated through, armed with shrewd strategies and an unyielding spirit. As we bring the episode to a close, our discussion veers towards real estate syndications and the mixed bag of opportunities and risks they present. This episode is your ticket to a treasure trove of real estate investing wisdom; you won't want to miss it.

https://harborsidepartners.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/charleskcarillo/ 
https://www.facebook.com/CharlesKennethCarillo/
https://www.instagram.com/charleskcarillo 
https://www.facebook.com/harborsidepartners/

https://www.youtube.com/c/HarborsidePartners

Transcript

0:00:04 - Speaker 1
Welcome back to MVP Real Estate Podcast, Season 3, Episode 16. We got Charles here from, if I heard before the show, you're currently in Florida. 

0:00:14 - Speaker 2
That's correct. Yes, I am. 

0:00:16 - Speaker 1
Awesome. I heard two other areas, so we're going to get into your background of how your whole career developed, all the areas. And then, like you and Dan were talking, there's little nuances depending on where you are, what state you're in within real estate. So I'm sure we'll get into that in the show. But thank you so much for being here giving us the time on a Friday. 

0:00:36 - Speaker 2
Thank you so much, Marcus and Dan, for having me on. 

0:00:38 - Speaker 1
Yeah, it is fun. I always start the show the same way. Just a little brief 30-second background of like who am I and how did I get to where I'm at? 

0:00:51 - Speaker 2
Yeah, so I'm from a small town in Connecticut. I came from a real estate investing family. My dad's been a multifamily investor since 1984. He and a partner built a portfolio of probably like 100 units in the Connecticut area, a city about 15, 20 minutes from where we grew up, and after getting out of college I kind of followed in his steps and started. Now we call it a house hack, but it was a three family house lived in. One of them rented out the other floor other floors to two other tenants At that time they were friends and then it was right next to a college, and then that was at the end of 2006, the end of 2008,. 

It did again And then 2009,. It was a very interesting time in the real estate market And I purchased my first commercial property, which was a mixed use property, and so it had some residential units and a storefront. I self-managed all my units, bought some other properties after that And in 2012, moved to Florida And since being down in Florida for years, i had third party management managing all my properties in Connecticut, but in 2022, we sold everything, all of our smaller stuff, and for the last seven or eight years as well, being down in Florida. We've been focusing on larger multifamily properties throughout the Southeast. 

0:02:02 - Speaker 1
That's awesome. So now you are completely. Your whole portfolios in Florida, or just the smaller things in Connecticut, were sold. 

0:02:10 - Speaker 2
Smaller things in Connecticut were sold. We have currently in our portfolio that we actively own is Florida, georgia and in Texas. 

0:02:18 - Speaker 1
That's awesome And that's super cool. The one thing that stuck out because you were in real estate in 2009, which was a very tough little segment, and then the years around that, and I feel like the market is kind of heading in that direction again where we're going to have some issues. So all your past experiences have gone through 2009 in that segment. Are you feeling more comfortable with where we're at, not to get too much into the economy and in that but yeah. 

0:02:47 - Speaker 2
I mean it's just since we really focus on multifamily longterm rental. So like when I say that 12 month leases and we I mean I really didn't have an issue going through 08, 07, i had longer term debt And it was, you know, your renting properties monthly. I mean they cashflow when I bought them, you know what I mean And they cashflow after we did our renovations to them And you know, if you buy them right, there's a way of like when you're, when you're doing rentals, if you have longterm debt, you have some reserves and you know you have multiple units So you're, if one unit's out, you're still, like, pretty much paying your bills. That gives you a lot of buffer for going through these times. I think the problem happens is when people aren't doing their numbers correctly. There's a lot more renovations required. You know flipping is a lot, is a. You know it's in and out kind of business, but it's also something that there's a lot more risk. Right When you start owning the properties longer term, there's less risk. You know what I mean If you're financing matches with that strategy. 

So I see where we're going now and I don't know. You know exactly where it is, but you know we bought our last property at the end of 2022. We just sold the property, like a week ago, one of our properties in Tampa. So we're buying and selling still. But when I'm looking at buying properties, you look at something like, okay, this should have been like 15 or $20,000 more per unit. You know a year, a year and a half before, and even if that goes down even more you know what I mean In the next year or so, it's still gonna be great buy. You know what I mean. It's still gonna be great buy Like there's. No, i don't think you're ever going to be able to time the market. You know what I mean. 

Everybody wants to time the market for the last, but you don't know what's going to happen in a real estate such a lagging industry compared to you know, if you pull up CNBC, you're looking at something you're like, oh, now I'm going to sell. Well, your real estate is still. You know what I mean. It's a separate entity from that. And the good thing about real estate is you don't know what it's worth. 

Technically exactly, and that keeps people, i think, from like doing crazy things. It's not as liquid, which some people stock traders will say. Oh no, it's not liquid, i don't want to deal with it. But it is kind of, because you can always refinance it or sell it. You know, within a month or so in most situations if you have a good property. But that's also a plus two, because now you're not. You know what I mean. I can't log in and like log into an account and check what my property is worth. 

I can run some rough numbers when I get a report or something like this. I'll never know exactly. 

0:05:05 - Speaker 1
Yeah, i know, and there's some ease on ease to that where you don't really know what it is And it's all subject to what's going on around you And it's ultimately worth what somebody's going to pay for it And you can do all the analytics you want, but at the end of the day, that's what you're resting on. Yeah. 

0:05:21 - Speaker 2
And then when you're, when you're buying better properties, those are going to be the ones that are going to be more liquid through all parts of the market cycle. And bad and you know bad properties and good markets they, you know they might be sold. You know what I mean. So if you have, you know, a C or D class property, they might have people that want to buy it during a good market, not so much in a bad market. You know what I mean When we're going through a pullback. No, if you have a good property though you know you have a solid property and one and going through bad times, you're still going to have people. Maybe that's the same price, but you're still going to have people interested in buying it because they see that it's a good asset. 

0:05:55 - Speaker 1
Yeah, Yeah, absolutely. And I want to tab that page and we're going to get back to it because I had one other question, because we get guests on here. Some are like you, where I grew up in a real estate family and my grandpa and his grandpa and my grandmother, and and then there are others that are like I was a school teacher and I wanted to make passive income So I bought a rental and now I've got 10. So it's everyone between. Can you take us back to like you being a kid seeing your? you said it was just your father, or was it both your parents? 

0:06:27 - Speaker 2
And I was just my, just my father. My mom was a school teacher, elementary school teacher, for whole. 

0:06:32 - Speaker 1
Okay, so, like as you're growing up, you're seeing your dad invest in real estate. Would you? would you like go to work with him or sit with him and talk about real estate? Is that where, like, the seed was planted? Did you know this is where you were going to end up, or? 

0:06:46 - Speaker 2
Yeah, so early on my dad owned, let's just say, less ideal properties. They were like C and D class. Well, that's C There were. there were D class properties being nice C minus class properties. let's just say they were terrible. 

0:06:58 - Speaker 1
Well, you're passing grade. 

0:07:00 - Speaker 2
Yeah, so it was. They were just terrible properties. And my dad, you know, back in the 80s it was a completely different day time than it is now. Back then I would just be, you know, we go back in like the late 80s and I just remember not even that old at all, and you'd go to like friendlies or some cafe and people would sign properties back and forth to each other. There's no due on sale clauses. It was. It was the wild west. You know, the 80s there was less. I mean, everybody was making so much money in the 80s And so it was a completely different thing. Taxes, the tax system was all different than it is now. There are a lot more appreciation. 

All types of people were investing in a real estate, with all that being said. So he was, he really got properties that he wasn't really putting a lot of money down on And that's what kind of built the portfolio Cause you go through and you're like, oh, wow, hundreds of units, all stuff are. You know, 80 units, i don't know what I was 90 units. Him and a partner had it at one point And it was something that they just were less ideal properties And but a lot of them. You get zero money And because you had people that realized what the hell they just bought and they tried to manage it. And you know, c, c minus D class properties are extremely D class properties are extremely management intensive. Never do it. It's just like I never did it. Per say like that. My father did it, but they were very you know they're. These were like cash cows because they were so inexpensive when they were bought. So they did make a lot of money for what you paid. But the thing that was that during the week I'd be like one night a week And then usually like on a Saturday morning or something like this, you'd go to the property. So there are only 20 minutes from where we were, but a completely different lifestyle from where I was brought up And you. 

You went to the properties and it was my dad dealing with because he self managed them. He had like a small team of superintendents And so it was him meeting with contractors, him meeting with supers collecting rent. That is super like getting cash to superintendents had collected. Or many times it was us going and picking up the last couple of units in each property that had him paid rent and going door to door, you know knocking doors going in. My dad had the spiral bound carbon copy book going in there sitting at field's kitchen tables and so you really learned your. I've never done that with any of my tents. When I collect even when I collected for six years cash door to door like it was never, i never went to anybody's house to do it. You know what I mean, it was on the doorway. My dad had a lot more personal you know personality about him of just of learning how to deal with tenants was very important that I learned from him. 

Because when you're dealing in C and D class properties, the lease is one thing but it doesn't really hold any water per se. You know what I mean. Not really many people follow the lease in those type of properties. So you're really you're always working out deals. It's always like just you're just doing deals and people that are by the book. You'll never make money in C and D properties. You just never will. So it's something that every time you go collect rent, you're negotiating and get certain money. Here Everybody's got a story and you have to be. there's a lot of moving parts. It's not just like getting a you know getting a money order in the mail or a check in the mail for 1500 bucks. I'm like, oh great, like I got my rent for the week. It's never like that easy. That's why you buy like being a class properties But yeah, but it was like. 

You know, it was a huge learning experience about dealing with people, about I never really want to get into real estate at that time Because I was like this is like terrible. You know what I mean. Like these properties are awful People you deal with or less than ideal. I mean it was just like it wasn't. It wasn't what I want to do. And then I think like high school came around and you know you really learned about. You really learned about the whole residual income thing. You know what I mean where we could go on vacation for a month at a time We go. You know road trips, stuff like this. We had a summer house we go to and my dad was always there, and so that's stuff you just don't get with your friends that were, even if they had more prestigious careers as doctors or attorneys and whatever it is in normal upper class white. You know wealthy areas, you know, and so yeah, well, that's what it is. 

But it was just like the residual income is just something that was. It's a huge thing and you don't notice it until you start actually making a little money, even if it's like a side job. You're like God man, it's pretty terrible, you know what I mean Like clean tables and doing landscaping and stuff like that. And then you kind of like think about it. You're like, oh, you know, like the residual income, no wonder this is so powerful And like this all makes sense now. 

But the main difference was that when I started buying properties, my dad was like you got to buy in better areas And he started doing at the end of his career. He started buying smaller properties, like three unit properties in better areas, and that was like that was a much more sustainable business strategy because you just got better tenants, you got better area. It's the whole thing. You know what I mean. And I did the same thing when I purchased and one property I bought was questionable but all the other ones were all in that C plus area type thing And you, you know you get people and I had some tenants for 10 plus years in those properties. 

0:11:34 - Speaker 1
Yeah, there I do, like the those C class, b and C class properties. I'm glad you brought up the eight A to D class properties Because, like you were saying, in that D class property it's a lot more management intensive And I tend to think that both side of the spectrum is intense. They're different side of intense but one is more like the conch years you got to do like all the nice amenities, which is labor intensive. The other one is labor intensive just because there's it's usually an older home, so there's maintenance. You're doing low income housing, so that's the gut financial stresses and labor is there. Like you were talking about going Saturday to go pick up money, which, by the way, i am just so glad I've never had to do that because to me that is. 

That is a thick skin, that you have to go in face to face with somebody that you understand is not financially well off and they're trying to get by or have a story of what's going on in their situation. So, man and just experience that at a young age, for you has to be eye opening. 

0:12:41 - Speaker 2
Yeah, my dad had all these phrases when people would say, like how did? he was just very good at handling people and managing, like just yeah, you have to be. And it would just be like he had. I remember we were in one apartment and I was standing behind him, he was at this kitchen table and they had like a plastic cover over the kitchen table, type thing, kind of thing, and my dad's like writing on it. It's like creaking and stuff, and the guy goes and my dad was saying something. He's like, yeah, he's like I got to pay that guy downstairs for work and he's and the person gave him money goes. Well, now you got money goes. You know how it goes in one hand out the other. 

And I did all these little savings. Savings. They're like, oh, i know what you mean. You know what I mean Like to put them on the same level as him. And it was. It was just very you know, it was. It's much different. I've never, when I rent that apartment, i never had anybody so personable to me like that. You know what I mean, because it's just a, you know, face to face with cash. I mean it's just like someone just cash for paycheck and giving it to you. 

0:13:31 - Speaker 1
So yeah, And there was really no other easier way. They didn't have online softwares in the 80s to process because since I've been in real estate I've never picked up a check or cash within one of my buildings. It's just a mandatory. You pay online because it's easier for everybody. 

0:13:50 - Speaker 2
Yeah, it's definitely the way to go. When I hired my first property management third party property manager and my dad never had a third party property manager And I remember this is like 2012, mara telling him, like you know how you collect these, like you should never be collecting cash. They get money orders because he's like I'm not collecting cash. You know what I mean? Obviously, because there can be fraud in there. Like you know, he was a very professional by the book property manager And so it's it's very important that you don't don't do what I was doing, but this is just how it, just how it worked. 

You know what I mean And it was just like it's something that I learned as a go and my I use my dad as a mentor to one letter, but it's also I'm not really I'd rather accept cash than check. So it's just like in situations and not many people paid me in money order, so it's really just like you get a check. That thing is like I'm bringing to the bank the ink still wet on that you know what I mean. 

It's like it's in its terror. it's just how it is because it's the demographic you're working with. It's like you know, people that are using a debit card until it stops working, kind of thing, and they just paid rent and they must forget that they just paid me $900 and eroded me a check and now they're going out on Friday or whatever it is. So I need to get in there and make sure that clears before that happens And it's just what it happens. 

It's just, it's a demographic. I don't want to scare people on this. This is why the whole thing is if you buy properties, buy better properties, you're going to get enticed, And I think it's a normal progression with real estate investors where they start with less than ideal properties And then they move up to better properties and then happen with my dad very slowly, but he like sold out of all his stuff in like the late 90s, early 2000s, and stuff he buys he's bought recently, or stuff he buys himself. Now it's just, it's it's more C plus B minus type stuff, and or he invests with us, with what we're doing So, which is definitely like B class stuff. So that's the, that's the whole thing about that. 

But just, you know a lot of new investors, they send me over stuff And it's just something like look at the returns on this, it's so great. I'm like, do you? I mean like this is, this is trouble, this is going to be a management issue. You're never going to be able to sell it, and then, when you go to sell it, i mean even you know you go to sell it, you're going to be having like two people that want to buy it. 

You know what? 

0:15:51 - Speaker 3
I mean. 

0:15:51 - Speaker 2
How are you going to? you know you can't win at that. So buy better properties. It's going to hurt you a little bit to make that, to make that purchase because you're like I'm overpaying for it, blah, blah, blah or whatever you think of your mind. And then after you do a little work to it, after you put good tenants into it or keep the good tenants that are there, then at that point when you go to sell it, it's going to be worth a lot more because you're going to get a lot more appreciation. With. With bad properties you don't get appreciation. You get cash flow and that's fantastic, but you don't get appreciation. And it's a management hassle And you can't hire a third party. My dad would never have been able to hire a third party manager for those. No one would take it. No one's going to. 

Oh you don't think they would ever. No, it's like you might find some third party managers that do it, but you need to. Really, whenever I've sold properties that were like less you know C minus properties and stuff, it only goes to an individual person. That's probably self-managing them, you know what? 

0:16:40 - Speaker 1
I mean, yeah, and anytime I've seen it, yeah, you probably pick your poison on that one Cause, in terms of all right, we classified our building A through D. The ones that are going to take the management on that deep property are probably going to be the D management companies. So instead of managing your tenants, you're going to manage the management company. So I guess, pick your poison. 

0:17:01 - Speaker 2
Yeah, and the other thing too is like, like the stuff that we were doing, you're not having a management company that's going to go there collect cash, number one and they're definitely not going to be over there. You know people hire up in the company being over there on a Saturday picking up, you know so you, and then when you're in these properties, if someone says, hey, i know you 400 and they have a hundred, you're going over there and getting a hundred dollars. You know what I mean. 

And management company won't do that. They're going to just hope you come to the office and drop off the hundred dollars which just yeah. 

So it's just one of those things is that you have to be it's a lot more management intensive And it's just the demographic, what you're working with when you start getting into like C plus and above. These are people that at some point want to buy a house. They have car loans. These are what regular car loans not like buy here, pay here, type places, so their credit tenants is what we call them, and these are people that actually like have credit. They have three x income in most cases you know what I mean of what rent is. These are people that can pay their bills And if they lose five hours a week off from their job, they're still going to be able to pay you rent, whereas you know, i was just reading a stat a few months back that was just like average C class tenant has like $400 in savings. So if there's a disruption there and they have a $1,200 monthly payment to you, you are in, they're not paying you or they're working on some deal with you, your collections will drop dramatically. 

0:18:16 - Speaker 1
Yeah, I mean, that's the difference of a car issue. Yeah. Yeah, their car goes down And I mean that could, that could be residual, a couple months of catch up, right Yeah. 

0:18:27 - Speaker 2
So now that's a yeah, a riskier part. 

0:18:30 - Speaker 1
And, like you were saying earlier, there are still. There are still, i guess, windows or opportunities in those D class areas. You just have to understand as an investor what you're getting yourself into. And personally I would have nothing to. I would have no problem with D class properties if my lifestyle could do that. I, with me being the single dad at home with the son, i guess I could technically on Saturdays go and take him for the day and go do all the things we need to catch up on. But it would be in a in area that's probably a little bit of a distance away. Yeah, so just, it doesn't make sense And there's enough B and C class around me that that's kind of where we stick. But I do like that. 

You mentioned that there is opportunities in those D class. You just have to be prepared that you're going to have a different type of problem. I guess in that area you got problems in every class. It's just pick that one. And you had mentioned before in Dan can you recall who the guest was that said a lease is great, but a lease is only as good as you want to pay to enforce it. So, like you were saying like you have your leases in place but you're making deals and your dad was making deals at the door with these tenants And, in all actuality, the lease is only as good as you want to pay to enforce it, which was a huge, like light bulb moment in my head. 

0:19:56 - Speaker 3
Yeah, I don't remember who it was that said that, but yeah, i do remember hearing it. 

0:20:01 - Speaker 1
Yeah, it just kind of stuck with me and that kind of gave me like Kind of inside of your dad at the doorstep like making the deals to make sure, like just don't make us go to court to settle This thing. Let's figure this out and we can make it all all work. 

0:20:15 - Speaker 2
Yeah, I remember going to court with my dad two a number of times. It's just like you did it. 

0:20:19 - Speaker 1
My next question. 

0:20:22 - Speaker 2
Uh Went to court. My dad was a back of the Nackin's kind of investor. Like, my dad doesn't know what IRR meant up until like a few years ago, so it's like you know all these fancy private equity terms. It was really just like cash on cash was all that mattered. Obviously, that's why he's buying D-Class properties, but it was just something that was yeah, you went to court and We went to police stations looking through mug books. I mean, it was a lot of stuff. 

0:20:44 - Speaker 3
I got. 

0:20:45 - Speaker 2
I got involved with that. Most people probably haven't and it was uh. You know, when you're going through court and stuff like that and you're working out deals with people and it's all you know, it's just like the same thing. You just like people can sign the lease, but it's really just like. I mean, if people really believe they wouldn't, you know in the least being so solid when you signed it, people won't ask for copies of pay stubs, you know. I mean you know they would believe the person, but obviously they want to back it up in them. 

You know, the harder it is to evict in that municipality, the more information that they're gonna have to do to do their underwriting. You know It's a much different underwriting experience getting an apartment in Tampa than it is in Manhattan, you know. I mean for the reason that we can evict someone rather quickly compared to someone in Manhattan. So they're gonna do a lot different underwriting on them up there versus us down here, for example. So these are just interesting things you have to know about. 

When you're going to invest, you have to know about the area that you're investing in, first of all the state and then down to the local level, because you can have. You know you might say Texas landlord friendly. You know Austin has his own rules, you know. I mean so these different things you have to know and how they differ. California is one thing, a Los Angeles is a whole different thing. So it's like when you're going in these different pockets, understand exactly, because this is like how important it is to choose a good tenant and it's terrible when you go into these areas because They think, oh, we have a lot of tenant, tenant, all these protections for them, but as a landlord on the other side, i'm really making sure that I'm getting the cream of the crop that goes in there. 

If I'm renting in Florida, yeah, i mean, like you know, i can go down to a lower credit score, i can do this. I can do that because if you, you know you pay your rent, you're perfectly fine. If you tell me what you're telling me and it's true, then you're fine. But if you're not, then I can get you out rather quickly. If it took me a year, then I'm not going down to anybody in this sub sixes. You know credit score And I want to make sure that you have a. You know 740 or whatever it is that, whatever you're renting You know what I mean And that hurts people that might be going through a little tougher time, that they can still pay you, but it doesn't look as stellar on paperwork. 

0:22:47 - Speaker 1
So yeah, No, absolutely. Well, that's. It's amazing the knowledge you've got as a kid and obviously it's helping you in your career now And where you're got where you've gotten so far. So You went off on your own after you said it was college right. 

0:23:04 - Speaker 2
Yeah, or after I got to college. Yeah, I started investing my own property first time did you? 

0:23:09 - Speaker 1
you started in Connecticut. What made the push to Florida? Was it like the municipality things that you were just talking about? Was it the amazing weather Like? what was? what was the push after you had a portfolio, because for some investors that would be super hard to leave? 

0:23:25 - Speaker 2
So my parents said like made it pretty clear a couple years before while I was in college that they're gonna be down in Florida. So I knew it's kind of like it's gonna be a natural progression. I would make it down there at some point. And so I bought properties up there. I was still running, you know, business up there It's finishing out college and Then when I moved down, i it really forced me to get third-party management. 

That I probably wouldn't have done if I stayed up there, which was great because I now had a lot more time to buy properties and spend time on other high, you know, high-income type hourly things compared to managing, you know, properties per se. So that was a that was a great push to do that and it was in 2012. The properties that appreciate it, but it was. They were running fine. We had done. You know, before he did it, i spent a lot of time doing a lot of work at the properties. You know, changing over a lot of mechanicals, doing a lot of stuff That would last for 10 plus years. You know, doing roofs, all this kind of stuff. So when I left, a lot of the major cat-backs was already done, you know. I mean, yeah, i did windows at one of the properties and then. So it was pretty straightforward and And then I had my property manager Let me know in 2021 that they're retiring and I just made the decision to sell at that point. 

So it was like and then we sold at the beginning of 2022, not knowing that was gonna be the higher part of the market, but it's just kind of how it works out. 

0:24:38 - Speaker 1
So Worked out well. 

0:24:40 - Speaker 2
Yeah, no, worked out great. It worked out great. It's just, you know those are properties. It was a portfolio of like C class properties and since they weren't, you know, the most sought-after properties, there weren't that many buyers the properties. So I found a landlord there that had like 60 units and wanted more units there from New York and He actually bought the whole portfolio from us. But it was just one of those things that was. You know, it's just, if you had more, you know, if you had properties that were in more demand, you could get. You know you have more buyers, you know, you know. I mean, it's just difficult when you're dealing with properties that are older, less ideal, you have less buyers for them, so you make money on it. But it's not like if I had bought those properties in 08 or 09 in Florida, you know okay, yeah, and then obviously, removing the portfolio, getting rid of the portfolio in Connecticut. 

0:25:29 - Speaker 1
You kind of have a fresh start in Florida and you're in this new area. I'm sure your dad had given you some insight of Florida, but for you personally you are like dropped into a brand new market that you get to go and analyze and figure out What pockets you want to invest in. So when you start your business down in Florida, or the restart of your business in Florida, how did you go through, like mentally, the areas you want to pick, what were some of the key things? you were like these are my I don't know key indicators of the good market that I want to get into. Were there anything that stuck out when you hit the restart button? 

0:26:07 - Speaker 2
just like I was looking at where I was living in in Palm, southeast Florida so Palm Beach area at that time, where I'm back living now and it was something that when I was looking at properties, it was a. It was very over, very expensive. You know what I mean. Compared to what I was used to per unit I saw higher crime rates. It was just a little different than buying parts of where I was used to in Connecticut. So when I initially, when we bought our first larger property In Florida, it was over in Tampa And I bought it with some, with some other guys, and we did a set, we made a syndication And this is several years back and we ended up selling that about two years ago or no, a year and a half ago and 2022, the beginning of it and But it was just something that it was. That was a very similar property to what I was used to. That was a C, c plus area See plus your building area. It was a much newer property than what I was used to. 

All my properties in Connecticut were like a hundred plus years old. So it was, um, yeah, this down here was like built in the 60s. I was like, oh, this is things like brand new. You know what I mean. But um, it was, uh, you know, but you just a growing area. The quality of the property was like the same, i would say, but the, the area was just so was growing. So much of that when we, you know, we rode, you know, like 2019, all that up to 2022, that appreciation which is still going now and the person owns it. Now They just bought another property from us over in Tampa as well And I mean they're gonna ride that appreciation as well. You know, i mean it's not going anywhere and they're not building any of these other properties that were built in the 60s or 80s. You know what I mean. So They, you know they have quite the the niche in the market because you know they're building new stuff, but that new stuff is gonna be $2,000 a unit a month. You know what I? 

mean Yeah and this stuff is was 1100 $1,200. So you know it's just uh That that's what I really focused on getting into over the last. We just sold our last C class property. So really, since 2020 ended, 2020 really just been focusing on, i would say, be minus and above properties and I would buy C class again, but not in a syndication with and with passive investors there's a lot of. 

There's a lot of parts of it that you can't control. You know what I mean. For an hour in the bank, count type stuff, whenever there's a hiccup. And now you're, you know You don't want to bring back properties to your investors and say that hey, we had a pause, distributions, or we had to do this or do that because of this issue. When I, when we're in B class properties, i just find that it runs a lot smoother. Yes, upfront, you're paying for better properties and you have to get you know, comfortable with doing that. But the appreciation is something you know rent growth and the appreciation is a lot better in the higher you go. I don't really do a class properties as an active investor. I passly invest in some of those and that's a different animal as well, just like D is on the other side, like you were saying initially. But we've really found over the last few years That B class is really where what's in our what's in our wheelhouse. 

0:29:08 - Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, and there was a couple reasons why, like because I'm in the same boat, i like to invest in the C and B class. B obviously for the reasons we've been talking about. But When I was early on in my investing career, obviously I've been told about the D class problems and I'm sure people that aren't investors could assume What your problems are in the D class. But the a class, i assume like, oh, it's an a, it's the best one to invest in. And then you start finding out about all the other things, that Kind of our negatives about the property or the tenants or the management side of it. 

And the one thing that kind of hit me was In in a down market, like the market swings, because in that time I was studying to be an agent. So you're going into the analytics of the market and the broker that I was working for, i believe, fared with me that he didn't invest in a, because In the down market everybody moves down a class. So if you're in an A, you go to B, when if you're in a B, you go to C, so A's are just vacant. So in that regard I was like, well, that's a risk that I don't want to sit on, especially if I'm early, if I'm paying the high money and Something happens with the market, that everybody moves down a class and I've got it a building that I just put millions of dollars into and now It's vacant, like that is a huge, huge vulnerability for the company and that's kind of why I pulled away from a. 

0:30:38 - Speaker 2
The other thing too is a new. if you're buying B class properties for $110,000 a door and new A class is coming on for $180,000, that's what's costing the build, and so if you buy A, you know you now have to worry about any new inventory that's coming on the market is all A, nothing's coming in. that's going to be a B. So if you own B, you don't have to worry too much about the A, unless they start like dramatically dropping prices or something like this, which you know they might do but it's still going to be higher than what you're charging. So B is something interesting. like you were saying that, i think renters make it through B class at some point in their life, and B class you have a lot of people A. I have a lot of people that are now competing with mortgages too. So you have a lot of prime buyers that can literally buy a house. you know they can, they can move in and then they can also just buy a house without renewing. 

Yeah, b makes a. B are going to be people that are a little bit strapped more, but they're growing. They are making money in their profession. See your people that probably for the most part won't be buying a house too much. You're going to have a lot of long, long-term tenants there, which is great, but it's you're just. you're getting much better tenants in the B that for what you're paying for the unit, with not as much competition as with A. I've also found A having higher vacancy too, being a little harder to rent those properties C class properties you can rent a whole building in a weekend But, like A, it's a much more difficult to find a really good tenant that's going to have all the income, that's going to check all the boxes to rent your $2,300 a month apartment and show you that they're making $7,000 a month. 

0:32:11 - Speaker 1
So yeah, And that wants to stick around for a long time. 

0:32:14 - Speaker 2
Like you'd mentioned. Yeah, yeah, cause if you start having the turnover, the main thing in long-term rentals is you want to get the people there for 23, 24 plus months. Right, you want to them for two years If they can renew for at least one year, possibly two years. That's where you're dramatically cutting down on your make ready. You know your vacancy costs, all that stuff. If you have people that are consistently moving, after a year you're, you're, you just are adding so much If there, if the places they can, for a year or a month, you right now that's 8% off, plus you got to make ready, plus you got to do all the hassle, plus you got to re-rent it. 

And if you can do all that in a month, that's great. But then you have to pay for it. I mean, at the end of the day you're probably losing two months between of rent and with cost. I mean because when you re-rent it again, you're at the pay or manager company to do that And then you're going to probably have one month of rent was just cleaning and repairing some stuff. 

0:33:03 - Speaker 1
So, it's. 

0:33:04 - Speaker 2
It's a difficult proposition when people aren't staying there for over at least over a year. 

0:33:09 - Speaker 3
In that situation, would you ever discount the next year? They basically calculate your costs. Like you just said, i'm going to lose two months because I got to move you out. Get it ready for the next tenant, get the property management to get it set up. But what if you say Hey, if you stay out, knock off a hundred bucks a month for the next year? 

0:33:28 - Speaker 2
I think where we are. I've never, i've never lowered rent Like that. I have just not increased rent And I've done that a lot. And then you know it's, that's not, that's not a healthy thing to do either. Even even if we're going through a lower inflationary period, you still want to raise that rent like two or three percent. Okay, i mean you just the tenants are thinking they're going to get a rent increase and just something that lets them know that this is a consistent thing, because then I'd rather that two or three. 

Because you read all the time with people that are just newer landlords, they don't know and they're like, oh I haven't. You know everything was going great, so I didn't raise rent for 40 years and now it's 15%, so I'm just going to raise them 15%. They're not staying like you're a good tenant If you adjust like 3% a year, which really isn't that much. I mean a thousand dollars. You know it's a thousand 30 and people understand everything else goes up around them. They go to the store, they drive by the gas station twice a day. I mean they understand exactly where we're going with everything. So it's just like I think it's dangerous kind of it can put you in a hard position when you're, you know, when you're not raising that rent but there's many times I haven't raised them before. You know with your tenants. And then when someone moves out, that's where you can really you you do the unit to where the appetite is for that market. You know what I mean. So if it's like, let's say, i'm going to put, you know, $2,000 into this unit for doing over this and that and I know I'm going to get like an extra $125 a month or something like that, so yeah, yeah, then you do it there. 

But at that point because what we do is when we're going through times now where we really don't know what's exactly happening right around the corner, you know you might have four vacancies come up and you might do that with one or two And then the other, you know, two or three you might just do some painting and cleaning and rent it just a little higher and see where it is. And if you see, oh, everybody's calling for just these like lightly cleaned and you know we cleaned and lightly repaired type stuff like new hinges and stuff like that, that's where we should really be focusing on. You know what I mean. And instead of you know we should put like $1,000 into new turns that come like this And you know what I mean And we'll increase rent 60 bucks versus going over here and spending $4,000 to try to get, you know, $175. So it's like you know less outlay and you kind of see exactly what the appetite is for the market, because you don't want to overdo it in the market And also a lot of people they'll just pay that two or three percent just to stay in there because, especially the thing with COVID, people didn't know what was happening And people don't know what was happening. 

They want to stay where they are. They want to stay with someone that's comfortable, somebody that obviously they have a professional relationship that's been going well for them or okay, better than they think they're going to get elsewhere. But yeah, it's very interesting kind of that when you come up to those. It's really per property and like your relationship with them and what your goal is for the property too. 

0:36:10 - Speaker 1
Yeah, and I like that. the whole topic I brought up of like lease renewals and what you do because I've even brought up at the end of your term, your first year say, hey, you can re up for the next year and you can sign another year and I won't raise the rent, and that's like their benefit of. I'm not going to raise it. Or you do have the option to go month to month, but it's going to come with $25 more a month. So I built in that buffer because I don't know when they're going to leave And I also do like if you go month to month, there's some months where you cannot vacate. If you're going to go month to month, we can't vacate in December Or in November because it's just going to be brutal. You're not going to move and like you can't really find a tenant and usually they're fine with that one. So that's funny. 

0:36:56 - Speaker 2
That's a nationwide thing too. Even in Florida people don't move and like I'm like December's like the best move man, yeah, but it's just like the renting season, it's just like it's a it's like a national thing to rental season. I never thought of that, because up north you're like of course, no one's going to move, and like Connecticut it's like five degrees or something in February, but down here I'm like really like this is how it works. It just happened again this year. It's a normal thing. It's just crazy everywhere. 

0:37:20 - Speaker 3
So I would have never guessed that. Yeah, texas. 

0:37:24 - Speaker 1
That's crazy, but yeah, it is funny that well, i mean, it is human nature. You live in your comfort, it's your safe zone. You want to stay usually within those two to 3% bumps. It's enough for them to say like, all right, i justify the safety. I don't have to get a U-Haul and move all this stuff and like get family and friends to come help me move for the fourth time in four years. So they usually like to stay, which is great, yeah. 

0:37:53 - Speaker 2
Yeah, that's just. you're just, you're being good, you're being a good landlord and it's a win-win and every deal should be a win-win. That's we're going to keep people long term. 

0:38:00 - Speaker 1
Yeah, and it's a delicate industry. You are dealing with property, but you are dealing with human beings and you have to respect that and you have to be able to work with them, because if you don't, if your dad did not work with all of his tenants, he would not have been able to do what he did. It's impossible. 

0:38:18 - Speaker 2
You won't make any money. 

You won't make any money You have to, and so that's one motivation for it. But the other thing too is that obviously they are people and you're trying to like. You know you're trying to keep everybody happy and make win-win situations And there's sometimes where people aren't going to be happy with you and there's sometimes where people are going to be, you know, where you're not going to be happy with what you did. I don't know. I had an attorney tell my dad years back that he goes a judge would know it's a good court case if both parties walk out unhappy, so it's kind of like. 

I always remember that when anything because you're like oh, that makes perfect sense, that's when you know like you rule the right way. 

0:38:52 - Speaker 1
You split right down. Every one's pissed off. 

I'm going to keep that one in the memory bank. I like that one, all right. And then, so I'm assuming you started with smaller buildings, you worked your way up and then you mentioned mixed use, so now you're getting into I'd call it commercial, but you own department complexes, so that kind of is commercial as well. Was the jump from residential to commercial a big jump for you and the company, or do you see a lot of similarities? What was the transition? Because for a lot of investors that I've talked to, that, especially when they're starting out, commercial is the wild west of like the 80s, like you were mentioning early in the show. 

0:39:39 - Speaker 2
Yeah, so just a paint, a little background. So when I bought property the first time it was at the end of 06. Then I bought it again It was at the end of 08, and this is like two months after Lehman, two months before Bernie made off. So like every time you turn on the TV, Someone was defrauding something. 

Some come bank was going out of business, some lender was like not doing loans anymore. You know what I mean or going out of business or both. And It was crazy at 2009 was just the same, and I you know The property I had bought. So just a pain. A little quick background is that this was a. I was, you know, i was renting an office at the time, so I wanted a property with an office in it, and This was literally all. My properties in Connecticut were literally within like four tenths of a mile of each other, very easy to maintain, i like bottom, all strategically around each other. So this one was like that too, and it had a 400 square foot office with a half bath and then four apartments over it and and then the property. It was on the market, sitting there for literally like four or five months, because back then there was no financing for These type of properties. 

0:40:42 - Speaker 1
If you had large news just in the commercial. 

0:40:44 - Speaker 2
It's considered commercial because I had it, had commercial property in it, but residential one to four units were selling because You had FHA and they can get a FHA mortgage and that'd be like a first-time home buyer. They could come in, they could put three percent. These houses were still moving. People are still flipping houses during all this craziness and Everything was going that way. But the thing that was that commercial financing especially you know your local banks, your million dollar or below loan amounts, we're not moving. 

No one was lending on this at all. It had to be everything purchasing cash and there weren't even that many like lenders around, hard money. There weren't really bridge lenders around, if any. It wasn't really an industry yet It was really just like finding hard money lenders and if they lend to you 50% loan of value, you'd be lucky. You know, i mean, and it was something that When this property was had sold and the bank sold two years earlier and the bank had put it on the market for like 40% of what it had sold for, right, and it sat there. 

So I came in, i put it, i put it like a bit 30% under that and they countered and they're like listen, we have one more offer in a best and final, all this kind of stuff. And so I went up, like you know, one percent or something, and they took it and so I bought this property Literally like 28 cents on a dollar of what it sold for you know years before, which back then we were like doesn't even matter, because I was just like it was a crazy amount of them, you know. 

I mean it didn't even make sense, so you couldn't really use that. As you're like comparing anything, i did some work to it and I rented out and it was like within 90 days and it was like it was during the winter, because I bought it in December 2009. So it was a lot of outside work, a lot of exterior stuff And I had these guys there that are doing great work on the interiors and on the exterior and it was great. We did overall the units over. Some of them needed some work, some of them didn't. 

0:42:31 - Speaker 1
They just need, were these units all vacant? 

0:42:32 - Speaker 2
up top. Yeah, everything was vacant. The whole property was vacant, it was just winterized, lock padlocked, you know, type stuff. So you know, i put in like 15 new doors, i put in, you know, all this new stuff, i put windows in all types, everything kind of a lot of stuff into this property, did the office first, because that's where we're moving into, and then everything else afterwards, and it was easier for me to manage because I was there. 

You know what I mean, which makes it a lot easier to manage our by coming going, pay people as they go, make sure people are doing what they say, and so that was. That was one part of it, and the thing that was that just to finish this out about where we were was that after finishing this property A bank that I had a relationship with that my dad had a relationship with lending and regular banking, everything like this They came to the property after it was all done and they literally would have given me less than 20%, not like any profit in there. They weren't doing like loan to value or anything like this. They're like we understand, like what you paid for it and what you put into it, and they literally gave me like they're like we can do, like a 15% loan to value. That's what they're going to do on it. 

0:43:36 - Speaker 1
Really, it was insane It was like I didn't see the actual value of the people man. 

0:43:42 - Speaker 2
It was like it had had nothing to do with it And I had done really well, like in and you know, for my another business out of time, because I paid for all the stuff in cash at this time during 2009 And and I was like showing tax returns, all stuff, like, no, no, we understand all this, we understand everything here, but like you've got to change, you've got we, you need to do, change the entity on this property from this LLC to this. You need to do this, you need to do that, and then we'll give you like 15% loan, loan to your cost, not loan to value, loan to cost, because I was renting it out at that point for like 2500 or, like you know, gross was like maybe $3,000 a month. You know what I mean. And like they're like, oh, we'll give you, like you know, just like 15% of what you say you put into it. You know what I mean, because it's obviously you can't lose. And it was just like so you're like, okay, well, i'm not going to refine. 

I'm not, i'm not refining what the hell we're going to do $15,000 or whatever it was, $20,000 or you know 30, whatever it was, and it was like so it was like okay, well then, that's it. You know what I mean. So you just like held it for cash flow. And then I remember going to like hard money lenders and they're like we, you know. They're like I see what you bought it for, i see what the appraisal is. You bought it for this. We're not going to. We're not going to. I'll give you like half of what you bought it for. You're like, well, i did all this work to and all stuff. Like no, no, no, i'll give you, well, only half of what you like bought it for. It's like not counting. It was just like it was completely different. That's why the market was so weird, was like that's why the pullback is the financing just dropped out. So when the financing drops out of real estate, that's it. 

It's like there's nothing off and the only thing that all those flippers and other people that got starts and FHA or if you're doing large apartment complexes, yeah, you can go back to like Fannie and Freddie and stuff like that and they were still servicing loans, they were still putting out loans, but it was something that any of the regional banks they were. They were closed up for business and that is the lifeblood of smaller in for smaller investors. 

0:45:27 - Speaker 3
You know what I mean because even if you went on to, buy a second three family house. 

0:45:31 - Speaker 2
You can't just go through a lender and it sounds an investment loan, right? 

you can't just go through, can't do another FHA loan for that. So now it's like how the heck do I do this? so you're using hard money. You're using is just like I would remember talking to lender people that had bought properties from that were like big investors in the town as well and they're like I'll call this hard money lender, blah, blah, blah. And then he's telling me where it's he's getting in terms, he's getting in a column, not getting anywhere near this, because it's just all about relationships that you build over the years And there's people still lending. 

But you had to have the relationships you had to. It was difficult. It was difficult and people are back on that time they go, wow, what a deal you got and all the stuff. Man, like you have no idea. This is not like even today. You can go and be. There's still bridge lenders out there. If you want to pay 9%, you can get money pretty quickly and you can get it with pretty high loaned values, not like a year and a half ago. But but back then, man, there's when there's no money you know what I mean available for rent, for what you're doing. That's when the prices dropped, because if that had been a four unit property, the pricing would have been a lot different. 

0:46:30 - Speaker 3
Right so. 

0:46:31 - Speaker 2
I wouldn't be able to rent. I would have been able to refinance that. You know what I mean. Or sell it I wouldn't. I would never be. I bought this property knowing I wasn't going to be able to sell us for many years. So and that's not something that I think most people even think about today when they're buying property, even if they buy property, even a D class property, i do some work to it. 

I do something. I click rent for two years. I probably can sell it for at least. You know all I have into this. You know I mean and just keep the cash flow over those two years as profit. Back then, years like you, wouldn't be able to sell it. You know I could put that thing up if the bank couldn't sell that thing. You know what I mean and I'm literally giving the thing away. You know what I mean. Like what am I going to do? and like we're in who who's going to finance the buyer. You know what I mean. Yeah, it's like, unless someone's coming in full cash, but then you're not going to make any money because they're going to want. You know every deal like you did so. 

0:47:15 - Speaker 1
Yeah, it's difficult. 

0:47:16 - Speaker 3
Yeah. 

0:47:17 - Speaker 1
I'm sure with that building, because it was a little bit, i don't know a little bit out of the box outside of what they usually lend, because in that time when, when lending gets kind of stringent, like they pull back a lot. And then you know, i go like the FHA route where there's like the house has to be clean, neat, it's got to fit into this little box, there can't be chipping paint, like everything needs to be working order, otherwise they don't lend on it because they it's risk aversion, they just don't want to lend out to something that's going to be more risky And with that being a multi use, i'm sure they looked at that as a huge risk, even though you're telling them like your numbers on it, which is the annoying thing about lending, because you always have to fit into the little box, even though a normal person, even the underwriter that you're talking to can see it. 

But when they type it into their computer, you only get what the what the bank wants to lend to you. 

0:48:13 - Speaker 2
Yeah, that's completely true. And then that was when I started seeing, because this property was like 90% plus square footage of residential. So I started seeing stuff online when I was looking for lenders, or like years later when I was trying to refinance it, and they still had these like things like we're only lending if 85% of it is residential, you know square footage wise, and all these type of things you're like. And now you know, you know it's difficult to rent commercial properties, you know. 

I mean you know, commercial units and this is a small, unique property. It's not like renting out a 4,000 square foot restaurant, You know. I mean like you can just find somebody that wants to leave their paperwork there and charge them a few hundred dollars a month, which is what I had up until selling it as a tenant, And but it's just a very. you know, these banks want stuff that fits in the box. Like you said, no boarded up windows in the neighborhood. They don't want to see one tarp anywhere, no matter even if there's construction going on there. 

Like they don't. they want to make sure that this limits all the risk. I mean, it makes sense. You know what I mean. You're not going to want to really rent. Are you going to pay a higher premium if you're driving on the street and you see a boarded up window or someone have a tarp on their place And then you come back a week later and it's still there as you drive by? You know, you're just not, you're not going to, you're not in. 

0:49:19 - Speaker 3
That makes it difficult for the neighborhood to get your loan. Hey, let me take care of that window for you. 

0:49:27 - Speaker 1
I was watching last night. I was watching some I don't know HGTV show where this couple's moving to the East Coast but they didn't have the down payment. So I think her one of the parents was paying for the property. But the four of them went to go house showing like go, look at all the houses of where they're moving. And she wanted I think she's from Albuquerque, somewhere in New Mexico she wanted like that style home and they're moving to Connecticut. 

So you, being from Connecticut, you're not going to really find that style. So she's trying to not find an HOA, not find something cookie cutter, but their bank, aka the parents, were like resale, all I want is HOA. I want no tarps, no broken, no maintenance. I want floors that you're not going to damage And they were just button heads. and I'm like man, this would be literally if I had my, my mortgage broker come with me and like talking my ear about all the things he's not going to lend on. And I'm like, oh my God, this is annoying. I couldn't watch the episode anymore, but that's what. 

I felt like the mortgage lender, just like nope, nope, nope needs to be better. 

0:50:38 - Speaker 2
Yeah, like, oh my God it was only like it was only like the one to four units. I mean, that was the only thing. I mean even duplexes. We were sweet and flip during that whole time was only when I flipped houses during that time as well. There's only single families, three, twos. We had this, like my dad and my brother and I we worked together and did some flips and it was like 1200 square feet to 14. 

Like you had the specific thing that what was going to sell, people want to buy And you had no problem of, like you know, and you had really good comps like, okay, that one sold for 140 over there, we can pay 80 for this, you know, i mean, and so, like you have all these things that you're working on when you're doing it, so, but that's what it is in every market cycle. You know what I mean. That's why it's a consistent changing business plan And you see stuff happen again to a different extent, like what we had here. What was going on and I wasn't really in in 2005, 2006 I was, and it was pretty crazy for the beginning of it, before I actually bought. 

2007 beginning was like that and then at the end of 2007 is just, you know, 2008 just really came out and it really didn't get back until for another few years to getting back to like normal stuff with lending and actually being able to, because you couldn't refinance properties either. You know what I mean. And mortgage rates were dropping dramatically during this thing. I think like six and a half I paid in 06, like maybe five and a half 08 and 2010 I refined, so it's like four and a quarter. So it's like a dramatic. You know, that's how they had a shake up. Try to shake up the economy by cutting interest rates, which is probably what's going to happen today too. Nothing's going to come down until they break something. 

0:52:01 - Speaker 1
So I know, and that's where we're waiting on. I'm going to call it doomsday on that one. So we only got a couple minutes left. I know we talked about the past. What are you currently like? what? where are you guys taking your business here towards the end of 2023 or setting up for 2024.? 

0:52:21 - Speaker 2
Yeah, so what we've been, what we've been focusing on for the last several years, is syndicating properties, multifamily properties. Now we're focusing on 100 unit plus properties in the southeast of the United States. We partner with three different operators that we work with that are like boots on the ground and markets that we're not in, and so we are able to offer our passive investor, our clients, a diversity of where they're investing so they can get exposure to different markets. Going forward, we're still buying properties. I always want to be open to buying and also open to selling at any point if we get the right price, and I think for buying, it's just one of those things. 

It's very difficult to wait for the bottom. Obviously, everybody would like to buy at the bottom, but, like, when you buy at the bottom, you don't know you're buying at the bottom And you never really buy exactly the bottom. It's just really kind of how everything works, but you know if you're getting a discount versus you were before for years and you're able to cash flow out of the gates on your property. I mean, those are the most, the most important things that you should be looking at when you're buying property and that's what we're doing And you know, if we're getting deals on what it was a few years back. That's really what our goal is, and to see areas that are growing, you know, and we're buying and really growing markets and we have a pretty strict criteria of going into states and into cities MSAs that have shown growth over the last 20 years and will be, you know, continue to show that into the future. 

0:53:41 - Speaker 1
Yeah, so you're. These are all done in syndications, right? You said Yeah, yeah, so everything is done. 

0:53:47 - Speaker 2
Syndications now as it is, i mean I probably will buy some other properties myself and like joint ventures At this point. I haven't done that anymore since selling out my whole portfolio last year, but of smaller stuff. But yeah, syndications are really what we found and we're it's, it's ability of buying better properties. You know what I mean? Yeah, because then you can go with investors. Most investors can't afford like good quality B class properties or they buy like a single family house, so it's riskier in that situation. Not many investors can go out and buy like a nice, clean, 10 plus unit B class property. 

You know what I mean With their own funds or if they, and it's also kind of risky trying to find someone to partner with that you don't know, And you know what I mean And like oh yeah, let's each put up like a you know $200,000 to buy this property. 

It's kind of risky, whereas with our situation we're able to offer for a much lower entry point to come in alongside us because we invest usually about 20 to 25% of the joint neural partners usually invest every deal of what's required And so we invest alongside our you know, our past investors, our partners in those deals, limited partners and you can get some of the upside on working with us and the markets we're working on And you know, keeping our properties. We say five to seven years and the last few years have been a lot faster than that, you know, usually right around three years. But you know I don't know if that's going to continue, but we'll really see what happens. But the main thing is that people are going to pay their rents and up down sideways markets, especially in B class. 

0:55:13 - Speaker 1
Yeah, absolutely. Well, i couldn't agree with you more on the B class. That's right where I'm sticking for now, if somebody wanted to join us. 

0:55:21 - Speaker 3
Indication what are your not require? yeah, your requirements. Or what do you look for in an investor? What do you want from them? 

0:55:29 - Speaker 2
Yeah, so our. If you want to go to our website, harborsidepartnerscom. So, harborsidepartnerscom, we have a. We go through a lot of information on learning more about syndication. We have a YouTube channel that I put on a couple episodes every week on syndication and investing into everything, and typically what happens with minimum investments is $50,000 and we take accredited and non-accredited investors as well. It just in for non-accredited investors. We need to have some pre-existing relationship. The investor needs to have pre-existing relationship with myself or one of the other partners and our firm And you know we can start that by if you want to reach out to us and we can start talking and go through everything that we do And, if it's something that works, possibly work together in the future. 

0:56:13 - Speaker 1
Okay, Yeah, that's awesome, And we will make a link to your YouTube channel for the show as well, Because I mean I know I would watch. I will watch a couple episodes, because you seem like a wealth of knowledge in with. It's probably a couple of decades of real estate knowledge already under your belt. 

Yeah, it's crazy, yeah, it probably doesn't feel that way, but like if you think about you as a kid still starting the timing. I mean, you've got years on your belt, so we'll link to that. We'll link to your website as well. Thank you, is that the best way to get in touch with you is just through the website? 

0:56:50 - Speaker 2
Yeah, go to harborsidepartnerscom. Everything is there. If you want to reach out to me directly, you can set up a call there. You can also just put a form through on our website sign for our investor club, sign for our mailing list, everything. We have a free book on past investing in real estate and how it works. So there's a ton of information on our website. You can really understand what we're doing. And if you want to connect with me or somebody else on the team, just reach out and get on calls with people all day long. 

0:57:14 - Speaker 1
I like that. That's awesome. That's super cool that you offer all that stuff. Thank you, that's great. Well, i appreciate the time. Thank you so much. I'll be jumping on the website. I'll take a look at all that stuff and watch a couple of videos, but we should. I kind of want to see where the career takes off. We're going to have to keep in touch and see where things go, because you're in the position that I'm chasing, like I want to get into those bigger syndications and do all that stuff. So I'm going to watch you as you progress and then I'll keep trying to chase you. 

0:57:49 - Speaker 2
Sounds great. Marcus and Dan, thank you so much, guys, for having me on lot. 

Transcribed by https://podium.page